** Official Level 10 Problems Thread **

[athomas]

I'm assuming now that the vent hole is too far BEHIND the carrier o-ring. This can now be adjusted with shims to move the carrier back again and hopefully seal it up.

If the vent hole is behind the oring, it won't leak. It only leaks when the vent hole is exposed at the front of the oring. This allows the air to pass through the center of the bolt stem to the hole on the side of the bolt stem, bypassing the carrier oring seal. Adding shims pushes the carrier and oring farther back and exposes the vent hole even more.

[factoid]

I've got another rail, I just haven't been using it because for whatever reason the sear doesn't have enough travel in it to push the on/off pin completely into the valve so that it can be removed. It fires fine, but whenever I want to remove the valve I have to take the body off the rail. I'm working on some other options to make that rail work, or possibly replacing that sear.

I did some more testing with springs and I found that my "medium" spring that I made by cutting a coil or so off a long grey spring actually causes the leak to get worse.

So what I'm seeing is this:

With gold spring, valve gasses up and holds air. After firing a shot or two it starts leaking and will leak if any slight pressure is put on the trigger.

Thus the vent hole is not lining up right against the power-tube o-ring, probably too far forward.

I put in a longer spring and now the valve leaks at gas up. Wiggling the bolt does not stop the leak. I'm assuming now that the vent hole is too far BEHIND the carrier o-ring. This can now be adjusted with shims to move the carrier back again and hopefully seal it up.

If none of this works I'm going to trash this rail and go back to my wonky RT rail.

Here's where I'm at now.

a .5 carrier, no shims and just a tiny amount of leaking. Using the slightly longer spring and a smaller spacer seems to be doing the trick mostly.

If I notice a leak I can generally make it stop by holding the trigger down a couple seconds until the air chamber completely drains and then release.

It's not doing it 100% of the time anymore, so it's an improvement. I also found that I can affect the leaking by using an allen wrench on the field strip screw. Sometimes there's a sweet spot where it won't leak, which leads me to believe that much of my problem is stemming from my rail and its tolerances.

It's good enough to play with this weekend for now.

[factoid]

I've got another rail, I just haven't been using it because for whatever reason the sear doesn't have enough travel in it to push the on/off pin completely into the valve so that it can be removed. It fires fine, but whenever I want to remove the valve I have to take the body off the rail. I'm working on some other options to make that rail work, or possibly replacing that sear.

I did some more testing with springs and I found that my "medium" spring that I made by cutting a coil or so off a long grey spring actually causes the leak to get worse.

So what I'm seeing is this:

With gold spring, valve gasses up and holds air. After firing a shot or two it starts leaking and will leak if any slight pressure is put on the trigger.

Thus the vent hole is not lining up right against the power-tube o-ring, probably too far forward.

I put in a longer spring and now the valve leaks at gas up. Wiggling the bolt does not stop the leak. I'm assuming now that the vent hole is too far BEHIND the carrier o-ring. This can now be adjusted with shims to move the carrier back again and hopefully seal it up.

If none of this works I'm going to trash this rail and go back to my wonky RT rail.

[athomas]

Pushing the bolt does stop the leak.

The sear I'm using is brand new, though, so I'm not sure what I can do to affect how far forward the bolt sits.

Maybe a piece of scotch tape inside the sear pin groove on the rail? Maybe that would allow the sear to sit a bit farther back?

This same rail was used on for a while on my classic valve with level 10 and it had a similar problem. But with that valve I could correct the leak by using a shorter spring.

Well, if you are using a rail bushing, and I assume you are, then you have a rail that is out of spec. I wouldn't go with the scotch tape idea. The sear pin is usually tight as it is. You might be able to press fit a solid slug into the rail bushing hole and drill the hole in it so it is forward of where it normally sits. That would push the valve farther forward.

What might work, is if you shave a tiny bit off the inner flat edge of the powertube tip. Its the flat surface that pushes against the carrier. Taking a bit off it will allow the carrier to sit farther forward. Make sure you do it against a flat surface so you don't sand more off one side than the other.

The other option is to shave a bit off the carrier itself. The problem with this option is that it only works on the one carrier. If you have to make a change for any reason, you will have to do it again for the next carrier, and then the carriers won't be interchangeable in other guns.

[factoid]

With the valve gassed up, stick your finger in the end and push on the end of the bolt to see if the leak changes. If pushing it back and wiggling it stops the leak, then its an issue with the bolt being too far forward. If the leak just changes as you wiggle it around, then you need a tighter carrier size.

Pushing the bolt does stop the leak.

The sear I'm using is brand new, though, so I'm not sure what I can do to affect how far forward the bolt sits.

Maybe a piece of scotch tape inside the sear pin groove on the rail? Maybe that would allow the sear to sit a bit farther back?

This same rail was used on for a while on my classic valve with level 10 and it had a similar problem. But with that valve I could correct the leak by using a shorter spring.

[athomas]

Yep, I've tried about 3 of them now.

I'm going to pull the one out of my classic valve that I know is working well.

It shipped from the factory with a .5 carrier and 3 or 4 shims. I immediately pulled all that out and went straight to a 1.5 carrier, which occassionally leaks at gas-up. Seems like a 1.0 is probably the right fit for this, but maybe I need to go down farther. I don't think I've tried the 0 yet.

With the valve gassed up, stick your finger in the end and push on the end of the bolt to see if the leak changes. If pushing it back and wiggling it stops the leak, then its an issue with the bolt being too far forward. If the leak just changes as you wiggle it around, then you need a tighter carrier size.

[factoid]

Shims will push the carrier farther back and expose the vent hole even more.

Did you try changing the white carrier oring, just in case it was defective?

Yep, I've tried about 3 of them now.

I'm going to pull the one out of my classic valve that I know is working well.

It shipped from the factory with a .5 carrier and 3 or 4 shims. I immediately pulled all that out and went straight to a 1.5 carrier, which occassionally leaks at gas-up. Seems like a 1.0 is probably the right fit for this, but maybe I need to go down farther. I don't think I've tried the 0 yet.

[athomas]

Sear is brand new, came with the x-valve.

It came stock with at least 3 or 4 shims in there which I removed before I ever gassed it up. I might try putting some shims back in it to see if that moves the carrier far enough to seal the vent hole.

Shims will push the carrier farther back and expose the vent hole even more.

Did you try changing the white carrier oring, just in case it was defective?

[factoid]

How old is the sear. Maybe there is just enough wear to allow the bolt to sit forward enough to locate the vent hole near the sealing edge of the carrier oring.

Sear is brand new, came with the x-valve.

It came stock with at least 3 or 4 shims in there which I removed before I ever gassed it up. I might try putting some shims back in it to see if that moves the carrier far enough to seal the vent hole.

[athomas]

I just got a brand new X-Valve.

It's going into a stainless body on an AM/MM rail.

I'm trying to tune the level 10 bolt and no matter what carrier I use, or what spring I use, I'm getting a small leak from the power tube area after the trigger is pulled.


The smallest carrier that won't leak as soon as I gas up is the 1.0 carrier, and that's whats in there now. No shims.

It gasses up great. Holds air, and cycles like a champ. It will even get a nice RT bounce off my stock input pressure ninja tank which is set for 850 psi or so.

But as soon as I pull the trigger once I get a small hissing leak from the powertube. Sometimes it stops after a few seconds, sometimes it keeps going.

If I hold down the trigger it will leak a bit louder for just a few seconds and then stop. After letting go sometimes the leak comes back, sometimes it stops.

I had this same problem with the level 10 on my classic valve. The solution for that was to put the short spring on. I started tuning this with the gold spring and it doesn't help. The long spring won't even cycle, no matter how high I turn up the velocity.

How old is the sear. Maybe there is just enough wear to allow the bolt to sit forward enough to locate the vent hole near the sealing edge of the carrier oring.

[factoid]

Persistent barrel leak

I just got a brand new X-Valve.

It's going into a stainless body on an AM/MM rail.

I'm trying to tune the level 10 bolt and no matter what carrier I use, or what spring I use, I'm getting a small leak from the power tube area after the trigger is pulled.


The smallest carrier that won't leak as soon as I gas up is the 1.0 carrier, and that's whats in there now. No shims.

It gasses up great. Holds air, and cycles like a champ. It will even get a nice RT bounce off my stock input pressure ninja tank which is set for 850 psi or so.

But as soon as I pull the trigger once I get a small hissing leak from the powertube. Sometimes it stops after a few seconds, sometimes it keeps going.

If I hold down the trigger it will leak a bit louder for just a few seconds and then stop. After letting go sometimes the leak comes back, sometimes it stops.

I had this same problem with the level 10 on my classic valve. The solution for that was to put the short spring on. I started tuning this with the gold spring and it doesn't help. The long spring won't even cycle, no matter how high I turn up the velocity.

[athomas]

Im trying to Help a Member of the TechPB forums with his Level 10 issue, and it kinda has me stumped.



So its a leak which seals itself and then un-seals itself.
Anybody know whats up?

It could be as simple as too many shims in the powertube. The carrier moves around when the bolt cycles back and forth. If the bolt vent hole is close to the carrier oring sealing surface, it will sometimes be exposed and leak. Removing the shims will allow more distance for the carrier to move without exposing the hole.

[Mime]

Im trying to Help a Member of the TechPB forums with his Level 10 issue, and it kinda has me stumped.

I think I just have to retune the level ten, but it leaks out the bolt. Not a lot, but enough to be noticeable, I thought it was a on/off O-ring but it stops when I hold the trigger, so do you think the bolt just needs to be tuned or what?

.....

Well thats the thing, when I first air it up it doesnt leak, then I take a few shots and it starts to leak, then it seems to resolve itself and then it leaks again. Then there are times when i can shoot a full tank without any problems

So its a leak which seals itself and then un-seals itself.
Anybody know whats up?

[factoid]

Posting this for a friend. I'd appreciate it if you guys could help.

"My level ten leaks, and I want to retune the the bolt. Ive watched several of the tutorials, but none of them have told me how to remove the carriers and shims from the powertube, and Id greatly appreciate it if you could tell me how to do it."

The easiest way to remove shims and carriers is with a pick. The field strip screw will work in a pinch though.

Remove the power tube tip with a wrench (a correctly sized wrench is better than a crescent wrench because you're less likely to strip it. But again...it will do in a pinch).

Once you've loosened it it should remove easily by hand.

The shims (if there are any in there) should be sitting right on top, so just tip the valve upside down and tap them out, being careful not to bend them. I usually recommend working on mag valves on top of a clean towel because stuff won't roll away or get lost as easily.

The carrier won't just tip out...it needs a little force. A dental pick is my preferred method. You can find these at medical supply stores, but you can get similar equivalents at any hardware store, they're just made for woodworking rather than teeth.

There's lots of advice here on how to re-tune a level 10. If you have specific questions go ahead and post them.

[TippmannFireman]

Posting this for a friend. I'd appreciate it if you guys could help.

"My level ten leaks, and I want to retune the the bolt. Ive watched several of the tutorials, but none of them have told me how to remove the carriers and shims from the powertube, and Id greatly appreciate it if you could tell me how to do it."