If AGD Wanted To Go Electronic ?

[Nobody]

Ok, so you are trusting a (presumed) hot molded product that shrinks when it is cooled to stay within exacting specs? Get over it. I am sure that if you take 10 different dye sticky grips, that the spacing on them will vary from grip to grip.

This would be different in a machine aluminium grip but its pointless to talk about specs on a maliable, changing soft products as grips. Maybe i don't know rubber or the injection molded products...

[luke]

I've made MANY different molds in aluminum and rubber and done castings in rubber and plastic. I've done open pours and injection molding in my garage. As a matter of FACT, I've made 45 and Emag panels that fit perfect. There is ZERO reason or excuses why a big time manufacturer can't hit within the proper tolerances if they start with the correct drawings. The casting process is the same in all industries whether your making soles for shoes, engine blocks in steel or aluminum or gun grips in plastic and rubber. Anyone making molds professionally will know the shrink rate for the medium they're working in and will make the molds accordingly. Like it or not it all boils down to mathematics. If it's impossible to do why are the PTP grips dead nuts?

[going_home]

If it's impossible to do why are the PTP grips dead nuts?

They screwed up and did something right ?

[Nobody]

I've made MANY different molds in aluminum and rubber and done castings in rubber and plastic. I've done open pours and injection molding in my garage. As a matter of FACT, I've made 45 and Emag panels that fit perfect. There is ZERO reason or excuses why a big time manufacturer can't hit within the proper tolerances if they start with the correct drawings. The casting process is the same in all industries whether your making soles for shoes, engine blocks in steel or aluminum or gun grips in plastic and rubber. Anyone making molds professionally will know the shrink rate for the medium they're working in and will make the molds accordingly. Like it or not it all boils down to mathematics. If it's impossible to do why are the PTP grips dead nuts?

From what i have gotten from people who have done production runs, not just 10 parts, but 100, 1000, 100,000s of parts; you are dealing with people who don't understand what its for, if a few thousandths here or there matter, or the simple fact that cutters or molds get gunked up, or medium runs out mid pour and the production QC just lets something that is not up to spec. Even if you have a company that is great at meeting prospective specs, a broken tool, an off center hole, even a dull cutter; you can not have the kind of attention that single pieces get.

So yes, from you perspective, its easy to see 1 out of 10 items not be to spec. When you are talking about the shear number of dye stickies out there(which i am sure where manufactured overseas, which is a whole different matter entirely), i would venture is in the hundreds of thousands of grips; your small sample size can not be the end all, nor the spec for the entire line. That is a fact.

They screwed up and did something right ?

This

[luke]

Machined molds will repeat 1x or 10Kx or even 100Kx times without deviation. Silicon molds do wear out but you will notice it immediately on the first few bad parts, in that case you stop and make another mold. You can normally see them degrading, it doesn't sneak up on you. Large manufactures would have shrinkage dialed in based on materials used, that said, if the parts you had made don't fit properly chances are it's your fault. I won't pretend to know why DYE chose 3.125" for center-line on their grip screws but I would wager it was an oversight for AGD. Like I said, I can see that happening pretty easily based on my own experience in the design industry. My only argument is the dimensions of the so called 45 grips, I don't presume to know or understand the intent of other manufacturers but it sure looks like a screw up to me. I will argue that if you are calling your paintball grip frame a 45 I damn sure better be able to go to Pachmayr and buy a set of standard panels or wrap-arounds that fit. That's the entire reason for using the 45 platform, it's ridicules to argue otherwise.

[luke]

So yes, from you perspective, its easy to see 1 out of 10 items not be to spec.

When you are talking about the shear number of dye stickies out there(which i am sure where manufactured overseas, which is a whole different matter entirely), i would venture is in the hundreds of thousands of grips; your small sample size can not be the end all, nor the spec for the entire line. That is a fact.

Once the molds are made nothing changes, they will repeat over and over again down to the finest detail.

[luke]

you are dealing with people who don't understand what its for, if a few thousandths here or there matter,

If you do the math you will see AGD is off by 100ths not 1000's (big difference in the machining industry).

[Spiritchaser]

I can't speak to the specific materials used in these grips, but certainly with polyurethane, there can be modest dimensional changes after fabrication. We had multiple instances across multiple batches where parts we stored for a while grew enough for it to be a headache. At first We thought it was a fabrication error because the growth was actually somewhat consistant. We know temperature was a factor, and suspect that time at humidity level was too. Now: parts stored in a restrained state didn't have the problem.

Again: not sure that this is actually the right polymer, or that it is in any way related...

For the record we established that those parts were not to be stocked, and that they needed to be installed (and thus restrained) very soon after manufacturing. We toyed with the idea of fabricating undersize, but decided a science project to figure out by how much couldn't be justified for that part.

[Sandman]

I'm not sure who made the intelliframe original drawings for AGD. I"m not even sure who ran the machining back then.
Hopefully, newer ones are made with better specs.

Hey luke when's that frame of yours available?

[luke]

Hopefully, newer ones are made with better specs.

I hope not, I make my Intelli grip panels to AGD spec not the 1911.

Hey luke when's that frame of yours available?

I want to change a few things up so it's taking a little longer than expected, but we're almost there. I hope to have a working prototype in January.

[RogueFactor]

They screwed up and did something right ?

Thats funny right there^...and true! Well done, GH. Well done.

[AGD]

This thread is an interesting read. I have often pondered on how to make a low volume but still profitable marker. Something like a 'signature series' with only a restricted amount sold. Still that type of product would be at the very top price range of the market and that alone would bring on the complaints.

The market is SO small now it just shuts off most of the options. Maybe when the last of the gun manufacturers go out of business there will be enough demand. :) Very disappointing to see that the lawsuits have started up again. If you have the same people you get the same results.

AGD

[going_home]

Yes sir, the lawsuits.

Even though I've bought most of my stuff used, I've started the process of ridding myself of anything GI, Empire, or Kee.

[luke]

Yes sir, the lawsuits.

Even though I've bought most of my stuff used, I've started the process of ridding myself of anything GI, Empire, or Kee.

What are they going after this time?

[Kartan]

paint... colours
thats why i decided to hold off on an emire sniper and rather go for redundant mag parts.