Deadlywind hAir trigger demo video

[slade]

IM going to patent the concept of thinking. All your minds are belong to us

i thought of that first, ill be seeing you in court.

[padiwack]

the chances of us getting the hAir anytime soon are pretty slim. so lets either wait for it to come out, or maybe AGD may come out with some new trigger soon, you never know. complaining about it will get a lot done

[B.A.M.]

i thought of that first, ill be seeing you in court.

Patent pending to u sir and prove its your idea. I shall now rule the world

[SlartyBartFast]

if a company wanted to patent a specific design, such as Bob Long patenting the technology used in the intimidator, that is perfectly fine, but a concept should not be patented.

Isn't that how the Patent process is supposed to work?

Hell, patent the specific implementation of the hAir trigger and start selling it. Polite letters to the lawyers about prior art and state of the industry concerning pneumatic controls and devices should keep them busy and drain the budget for lawyers.

Unless they come out with their product simultaneously, they can't prove losses right? So they slap you with an expensive cease and desist.

Honestly, there's got to be a way to stand up in court without lawyers and show a judge some sense.

Wouldn't telling SP to stick their head in a pig just standing up to them not grind them to a halt? Granted SP might have the budget to burn, but does PTP?

[drewd420]

this is from msnbc

U.S. patent office swamped
For most inventors, developing and perfecting an idea takes far more time, energy and money than it does to get a patent. But with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office drowning in paper, the patent process has become a frustrating waiting game. Without more funding, wait time could top 5 years.

[padiwack]

bummer... cant wait till 5 years from now

[rabidchihauhau]

[bunker17]

the reason why we are wngry is because is about to be christmas and we don't have a mech trigger to buy

[rabidchihauhau]

PTP is not to blame for that.

These web forums are mostly what is responsible, because they increase anticipation and sometimes seem to offer more than is ready.

It can take years to bring a new product to market (not just PTP - everyone) and it is sometimes irresponsible for a designer or manufacturer to 'demo' a product before it is anywhere close to coming to market.

There are many types of customers. Some buy high-end stuff right when it comes out because they have a need to have the latest. Others wait until its on its way out because they want to save dollars. Still others - such as myself - have learned to wait until at least the second generation of a new product is out - and avoid any of the 'teething' pains that are usual with a new product.

I could easily have had a level 6.5 automag. I waited till level 7. At that, I had to go and get an air passage mod to line up the inlet and outlet (NOT a bogus '8 hole mod', but the real deal).

I don't feel that I lost out on anything by waiting a half-generation; in fact, I think I ended up with a fantastic gun. Multiple months of field use by swarm, jax warriors and the SOBs revealed about 99% of the glitches.

Patience is a virtue.

[craltal]

I agree with bunker and rabid,

the main reasons people in this forum are getting angry is because they were anticipating the hAir to be out by now and they have absolutely no idea how the legal and manufacturing processes work. In a lot of ways, our society is to blame since we get used to going out and getting whatever we want when we want it.

NiCad didn't do anything wrong. He had an idea that he tried out. He made a couple of prototypes to make sure that the system worked as designed and asked a few people here to test them. He also wanted to gauge how much interest there was as the leap from designing a one-off piece to a design that can be mass produced is an extreme jump that takes time and financial investment. I think it was prudent on his part to do what he did.

Unfortunately for him, PTP was pursuing the same idea that they had years prior. As they are a larger company, they have the resources available to them that they can keep R&D secret. We don't know how PTP is going to enforce their patent. Better that this comes out now than after products have been made.

In other words, stop whining about the situation. Grow up, stop running your mouths without knowing what is coming out of them. I feel like I'm reading the temper tantrums of two-year olds.

[thejesus]

All right, I am going to throw some water on this fire.

1. So if we make this and there is a huge waiting list are you going to be upset?

2. Are you going to tell me "If you don't get it out now, no one is going to buy it"?

3. If the first batch has issues, are you going to ask me what's taking so long?

4. How many of you are willing to overpay to get it right away and then we charge you to upgrade it with fixes later?

5. Will you compare it to your 'fill in the blank' electro and tell us your battery powered gizmo is still better?

6. When cheater boards are made legal the same way all the other cheats in paintball have evolved, will you dump this?


This is my reality, your comments?

AGD

1. Upset? Probably, but I won't ***** about it. I have 2 mags now, so waiting a while for a kickass third isn't really a big deal. Plus it's winter, I'm hibernating with my copy of Half Life 2 :)

2. Electro's have been around for a long time, and from test-shooting Rob's hAir I can say that I will probably still be able to rip on my eMag faster. However, I still want to buy it, because it will be close to as fast as my eMag, and much, much lighter, I never have to charge it, and it will likely be more reliable. You should try to get it out as soon as you can before people buy their new gear come spring, but "now" isn't really necessary.

3. After playing paintball for almost 10 years, I'm pretty confident in saying that the first batch of EVERYTHING in paintball has had issues. If my hAir doesn't work perfectly in the beginning, I will not be surprised.

4. Since (as far as I know) there are only two hAir prototypes in existance (Colin's and Rob's), problems will undoubtedly arise when production has to scale to meet the need of all the people on AO that want a hAir mag. I am willing to pay more to have a hAir right away, and you guys benifit from having a little extra dough to work out the kinks on the hAir. However, I'm not paying more so I can pay more later. Why would I if I could just wait? Develop a pricing scheme where I pay a high fixed price up front to recieve the hAir before most people, and then I get free labor / parts on the hAir for some limited time, say a few months, while you guys work out the kinks. The initial release seems like it will be a "beta" anyways. That is, we get it a while before it hits storefronts at the local PB store.

5. Sure I'll compare it to my "battery powered gizmo," seeing as that "gizmo" is also a mag And as I stated above, I'll probably be able to rip on my eMag faster than the hair. But, I'll trade shots per second for a lighter, smaller, more reliable mag.

6. Nope. I get no satisfaction out of a gun firing faster than I can pull the trigger, and I really look down on cheater boards. Unfortunately, it looks like I'm getting to be alone in this viewpoint.

In conclusion:
Let's be honest with ourselves. There is no doubt in my mind that many of the people on this forum will replace their eMag's / XMag's with hAir trigger mags once they are proven to be reliable (I've shot one, I know they are fast). Then we have all of the people shooting Karta / Dallara / ULE mech mag's who will definately be interested in the hAir. Finally, I think there would be some sales in the "other electro" market (shockers, timmies, etc.) where the hAir would be a backup, or even a primary for those who want a change. I've spoken with a few players that play in the PTS (Pev's Tournament Series) in Virgina, and even guys who shoot decent Shockers and Timmies would be interested in buying a hAir. One guy said he'd replace his Shocker with it!

Will it prove to be a tournament gun? Sure. Will it gain as much of the market as other tournament guns? Well, if ramping becomes tourney-legal, DM4s, Shockers, Flys, Speeds, or Timmies w/ ramping boards will, [cry], burn the hAir, so no, it won't. Does AGD need to take a huge bite of the tourney-gun market to make a profit? Nope.

Build it, Tom, and we will buy it.

[snake_eater]

Deja vu?

Remember the RAIL system for the spyder?
It never came out either. I personally think Proteam will put somekind of pneumatic trigger for Autocockers on the market in the near future, and Deadlywind will continue to make bodies for mags. It may be too difficult, for a one or two man operation, to build and sell a complicated product like the hAIR trigger. And it's not like he can sell a prototype to a big company, he didn't invent anything either. He assembled pneumatics bits and parts in a Intelli and the result was the hAIR. Great DIY guy dont get me wrong... But when I think about it now, it's not a marketable product, except here on AO of course, a guy could sell anything for a mag here.

snake_eater

ps: We can say anything we want about hAIR/Deadlywind on this forum, he leaked the information himself to create hype. He has to live with it now...

[SlartyBartFast]

slarty and maga -
you guys apparently do not understand the patent process.

SBF wrote: "Unless they come out with their product simultaneously, they can't prove losses right? So they slap you with an expensive cease and desist."

You don't need to prove losses. All you need to do is show that a product infringes the claims of your patent.

PTP has every right to do 'this' - just as anyone has a right to apply for a patent. You make it sound as if all you do is write a letter to the patent office, sit around and then get a patent. Doesn't work that way. You basically have to prove that your application is unique, show them how it works, demonstrate how it is different, improved, etc., over any prior art that may surface during the application process. PTP did all of that - for 4 years.

[Phobos]

Is there any way around the patent?

Is there anyway to get thease triggers in the hands of us loving AOonliners w/o selling them to us? Say if we "donated" $350 to Nicad we could be some kind of "beta tester" for the hair trigger.

[ntn4502]

Is there anyway to get thease triggers in the hands of us loving AOonliners w/o selling them to us? Say if we "donated" $350 to Nicad we could be some kind of "beta tester" for the hair trigger.

If it didnt work for somebody that was friends with the guy, I doubt it would work for you