Automag RT INSULTED!!!

[nevtangle]

Emag...hahahahahahaha what a joke...when was the last time they produced the emag. Here is a qoute straight from AGD's Store Emag although a good gun...you can't even purchase a new one.

"Custom E-Mag

Not available at this time."

They have not been avalible for forever. Even at that...have you ever shot a electro compared your mag. Don't even try to tell me that your trigger pull is shorter than an electro...because that's just outragous! lol and I better put this in here...i'm not talking about spyder electro's...try a same price range electro like the mini, rail, etc....

Talking about revolutionary.......the prototype page on here is a joke. The last prototype is from 2003...lol I could go on and on...but heres a posting from the AGD's official site homepage.
"After using 200 AGD Automags for field rental markers for the last 9 years at Foxwood Skirmish in Norfolk, England, owner Mike Mason has opened a second field at Plumstead just outside Norwich, and his choice for the only rental paintball markers at the new venue? The AGD Pro Classic!"

ok....since when does a company resort to bragging about being a rental marker at a paintball field. Why are they not showing you new product....improvements...and so on? Invent or at least reinvent the automag to improve and live up to the standards of todays paintball game. boo for AGD.....

And I know this has to come up or probley already has......If you can't Invent a new maker that someone else has a patent for a particular design....you have to pay royalties. Look at what the Mini has accomplished. They have a new design and don't pay a cent to smart parts.

\

And what are all these other companies coming out with that is so revolutioary? Electros? Those have been out for a long time. Ever heard of the E-Mag?

All that nonsense and you still didn't answer my question...

[speed_ga]

ok to answer your question.

Lightness of paintball markers
Speed of paintball markers
Paintball prices
Running of markers at really low pressure.

All the above have revolutionized paintball in some way.


Revolutionary guns: Mini, Ion, Rail all have performance of high end, high priced markers at the low cost of 450.00 and under.

Paintball has come a long way since the automag and it seems as if automag sorda got stuck and decided to stop producing products. I'd rather a company die trying than to be a coward like AGD.

[cyberave68]

If you can't Invent a new maker that someone else has a patent for a particular design....you have to pay royalties. Look at what the Mini has accomplished. They have a new design and don't pay a cent to smart parts.

Smart parts patent covers useing electronics to fire a marker... I'm pretty sure that Invert is paying the royalties...?? Isnt that why there was all the talk about a law suit???

ok to answer your question.

Lightness of paintball markers
Speed of paintball markers
Paintball prices
Running of markers at really low pressure.

All the above have revolutionized paintball in some way.


Revolutionary guns: Mini, Ion, Rail all have performance of high end, high priced markers at the low cost of 450.00 and under.

Paintball has come a long way since the automag and it seems as if automag sorda got stuck and decided to stop producing products. I'd rather a company die trying than to be a coward like AGD.

Lightness of paintball markers---- Hmm ULE body, rails, Alum valves ok next???
Speed of paintball markers---- X-vavle can keep up with speed???
Paintball prices--- Hmm tough one, But what marker holds it value better???
Running of markers at really low pressure. ---Cockers have been running low pressure for years...

So none of what you listed is new????
As for the the mag, ever notice other guns copy the mag? Hall sensor on the Mini, forward battery pack, Ion--- single tube body design, that's been done? Its kinda hard to say that those things you listed are all new to the industriy of paintball. Yes they havent put anything new out but that doent mean anything????

[Tao]

Wow! One of the main reason AGD is still is business because it is prolly a 1-3 man show. There is marcy, and some tech dude. As far as i am concerned no one is hired to create ( with the exception of tom k decides to step in, but i do not expect it.

This is what i see, then are milking all the old products as much as they can to squeeze every penny possible before they go under.( selling old stock).

Thats what everyone thought 5 years ago, but they are still in business. There is no way someone would be retarded enough to order a single year's woth not to mention years worth of inventory, so obviously they are still manufacturing.

AGD has a few more staff, but paying for staff doesn't = success. Contracting out marketers, engineers, other speacialist, or even the production of inventory are perfectly acceptable business practices. It only becomes economical to have these processes in house if they are never idle, which all that I have listed are (with inventory AGD makes inventory in batches, not as a continuous opperation).

Just because AGD doesn't market to the mainstream doesn't mean they willgo out of business. it is perfectly profitable to target niche markets or even the field rental industry. Wethere they are maximizing their potential is up to speculation for us and really only Dave Zupan can give us a definete answer. Yeah one of the main reasons why AGD is still in business is because they probably keep only necessary costs. Having a handful of people working for the company doesn't mean failure or success, neither does having 100 or 10000 employees.

[speed_ga]

Smart parts patent covers useing electronics to fire a marker... I'm pretty sure that Invert is paying the royalties...?? Isnt that why there was all the talk about a law suit???

The mini has 3 new patents for it's design. Smart parts doesn't have a patent like the one you mentioned above. Thats way to broad. That would be like toyota having a patent on cars that run off fuel.

[Tao]

ok to answer your question.

Lightness of paintball markers
Speed of paintball markers
Paintball prices
Running of markers at really low pressure.

All the above have revolutionized paintball in some way.


Revolutionary guns: Mini, Ion, Rail all have performance of high end, high priced markers at the low cost of 450.00 and under.

Paintball has come a long way since the automag and it seems as if automag sorda got stuck and decided to stop producing products. I'd rather a company die trying than to be a coward like AGD.

Ion revolutionized, by sacrificing quality and reliability for low cost and as many features as possible and I salute the success of it, but it is definelty not a high end marker.

I have to say in my oppinion weight and low pressure are irrelivant. Go to the gym. Low pressure has some advantages, but sacrifice performance. people believe some of the wonderful thing low pressure does, but many claims are unfounded.

Price is a big thing and this is probably the hardest thing for AGD to balance, but not impossible.

Speed of markers was revolutionized by AGD with the RT valve....

AGD took huge risks. They spent a fortune and alot of time developing the RT (Classic) which at the time was unusable because it required high pressure air at a time when there was only CO2, and everyone was sceptical of the safety of HPA thus it was never allowed anywhere near a field. AGD managed to push HPA into the industry and all the highend marers would have never been without this gambit by AGD.....

[nevtangle]

ok to answer your question.

Lightness of paintball markers
Speed of paintball markers
Paintball prices
Running of markers at really low pressure.

All the above have revolutionized paintball in some way.


Revolutionary guns: Mini, Ion, Rail all have performance of high end, high priced markers at the low cost of 450.00 and under.

Paintball has come a long way since the automag and it seems as if automag sorda got stuck and decided to stop producing products. I'd rather a company die trying than to be a coward like AGD.

So you're telling me that milling off more aluminum each year is revolutioary?

Are you saying that each year the ion shoots faster?

Making something cheaper isn't revolutionary in my mind.

[Tao]

The mini has 3 new patents for it's design. Smart parts doesn't have a patent like the one you mentioned above. Thats way to broad. That would be like toyota having a patent on cars that run off fuel.

Well that may be true, however as far as I know the mini uses the same technology for the trigger as the emag, and SP threatened the emag as infringing.

[cyberave68]

The mini has 3 new patents for it's design. Smart parts doesn't have a patent like the one you mentioned above. Thats way to broad. That would be like toyota having a patent on cars that run off fuel.

Yea i'd say your right on that but i dont have a copy of it. It is pretty broad and has run alot of small marker maker's out of buisness... I can only go from the other forums at hand on that disscution, as I didnt understand all the legal mumbo-jumbo to read and understand it... Yes i also mention the Mini as one of the new companys that did somethihg new but thats about it....

[speed_ga]

So you're telling me that milling off more aluminum each year is revolutioary?

Are you saying that each year the ion shoots faster?

Making something cheaper isn't revolutionary in my mind.

what i'm saying is that today's current and new products all have made drastic changes in paintball. The ion made it possible for poorer people to get into the sport and have a good quality gun that has more bps than what people had avalible before for that price range of 200.00. I should know because my first gun was a spyder tl plus. Even though I thought the world of it...playing against shockers, automags, angels, and autocockers...I was definatley outdated with my type of gun at the time(2001). Making something cheaper is revolutionary because it opens the doors to more people. It has helped the sport of paintball become more popular. Why do think the Model "T" was so popular? It was a revolutionary car because it was priced to sell. People saw the price and ditched there horse and buggy. Then cars became the main choice for transportation.

[cyberave68]

what i'm saying is that today's current and new products all have made drastic changes in paintball. The ion made it possible for poorer people to get into the sport and have a good quality gun that has more bps than what people had avalible before for that price range of 200.00. I should know because my first gun was a spyder tl plus. Even though I thought the world of it...playing against shockers, automags, angels, and autocockers...I was definatley outdated with my type of gun at the time(2001). Making something cheaper is revolutionary because it opens the doors to more people. It has helped the sport of paintball become more popular. Why do think the Model "T" was so popular? It was a revolutionary car because it was priced to sell. People saw the price and ditched there horse and buggy. Then cars became the main choice for transportation.

[nevtangle]

what i'm saying is that today's current and new products all have made drastic changes in paintball. The ion made it possible for poorer people to get into the sport and have a good quality gun that has more bps than what people had avalible before for that price range of 200.00. I should know because my first gun was a spyder tl plus. Even though I thought the world of it...playing against shockers, automags, angels, and autocockers...I was definatley outdated with my type of gun at the time(2001). Making something cheaper is revolutionary because it opens the doors to more people. It has helped the sport of paintball become more popular. Why do think the Model "T" was so popular? It was a revolutionary car because it was priced to sell. People saw the price and ditched there horse and buggy. Then cars became the main choice for transportation.

Ok, I can agree w/ you on that...

[geekwarrior]

what i'm saying is that today's current and new products all have made drastic changes in paintball. The ion made it possible for poorer people to get into the sport and have a good quality gun that has more bps than what people had avalible before for that price range of 200.00. I should know because my first gun was a spyder tl plus. Even though I thought the world of it...playing against shockers, automags, angels, and autocockers...I was definatley outdated with my type of gun at the time(2001). Making something cheaper is revolutionary because it opens the doors to more people. It has helped the sport of paintball become more popular. Why do think the Model "T" was so popular? It was a revolutionary car because it was priced to sell. People saw the price and ditched there horse and buggy. Then cars became the main choice for transportation.

any other examples besides reducing costs? whats new and revolutionary since, say 3-5 yrs ago?

[Ninjeff]

Out of sheer curiosity, what the heck are you even doing here Speed_ga?
I dont mean to be rude, but, really...why would you come to an AUTOMAG site and try to convince people that AUTOMAGS are out dated? That seems a bit absurd to me.


Anyway, you seem to mistake "revolutionary design" in new markers for "change"


Making something lighter CANNOT revolutionize a sport. Period. It can change it...but REVOLUTION it is not.

Taking the sport from 12 grams, to constant air IS revolutionary. It allows people to play in a TOTALLY different way than before. Putting HPA on a gun is REVOLUTIONARY as it opens up the whole industry to making markers work differently. AGD invented some items that had to be out lawed from tourneys because they changed the game so much.

Ive been playing a long time, and i find it curious that there still isnt a marker as easy to use, as reliable, and as easy to tear down as an Automag. But then again, thats all opinion.....

So here is something. If mags are so out dated, how is it that they HAVENT come out with anything new in YEARS....and yet, are still making a profit with the same ol' "outdated" tech?? Year in, and year out AGD makes money.

Thats not opinion, or in the past. Thats FACT my friend.

I would love to see Dye, Smarty Parts or a host of other manufacturers stop updating thier product line...and still stay in buisness. I wanna see it. For the same reason i want to see Santa Claus....because i love witnessing the impossible, and i just dont think it could happen.

OH! And for the record, i have an E-Mag. And its faster than damn near anything else ive ever seen. Bring your new fangled electro and i'll bring an X-Valve......we'll see who is faster.

[The Obvious]

OH! And for the record, i have an E-Mag. And its faster than damn near anything else ive ever seen. Bring your new fangled electro and i'll bring an X-Valve......we'll see who is faster.

What makes it faster?
The noid limits it's ROF, By the way.
Mean to say, whoever can pull the trigger faster?