Automag RT INSULTED!!!

[SCpoloRicker]

I would wager another analogy:

Lets say AGD invented the Chevy small block engine. And, in its day it ruled the streets.

TK has an alternate login???

/pretty sure it was AGD that first made this analogy, no?

[Ninjeff]

TK has an alternate login???

/pretty sure it was AGD that first made this analogy, no?

Really? Wow.

HA! Thats pretty cool. I was going to use a "hemi" as an example, but they stopped making those for awhile, and brought back a new "updated" version.....so i used the small block.

[Hexis]

All but the pro classic come standard with an x valve which has the anti chop bolt and the best valve system in existance. This seems like an emprovement to me. The ONLY thing that guns theses days have over an automag are anti chop eyes and fancy software which are basically redundant.

Depends on your definition of "best". For me there are two critical factors: Reliability and Consistency. Some of the other aspects: Speed, Weight and Size are all IMHO fully under control. The Classic and RT/XValve are two of the most reliable designs available. The problem with the RT/XValve is that it gave up some consistency for speed. The recharging off unregulated input is a great idea, but does have it's cost in shot to shot consistency.

So, there are other things that other designs have going for them over the Classic or RT/XValve. One of the design goals for the Mini was consistency.

[zenderfall]

ok to answer your question.

Lightness of paintball markers
Speed of paintball markers
Paintball prices
Running of markers at really low pressure.

All the above have revolutionized paintball in some way.


Revolutionary guns: Mini, Ion, Rail all have performance of high end, high priced markers at the low cost of 450.00 and under.

Paintball has come a long way since the automag and it seems as if automag sorda got stuck and decided to stop producing products. I'd rather a company die trying than to be a coward like AGD.

Sorry, my friend, but the revolutionary things in paintball are:
CO2 tanks, referred in the early days as "constant air" (late 1980's)
Nitrogen (pioneered by AGD)
agitated loaders
Electric triggers

All the things you wrote about are just results of industrialization, mass assembly, and simplification. They are HARDLY revolutionary, and are concepts that date back to the early 1900's with the mass assembly of the automobile.

The CO2 tank revolutionized paintball because people no longer had to carry numerous 12-grams with them and semi-autos were now effective. Without the constant air supply, semi-auto markers would outshoot their air-supplies and the reloading of air-cartridges would be too much of a drawback. Semi-autos would not be possible today were it not for some genius to get a CO2 tank and modify it for paintball use. Constant air CO2 tanks were revolutionary.

Nitrogen provided fast-recharging, consistency, and resistance to ambient cold temperatures. It allowed semi-autos to fire more than 10-BPS consistently without shoot-down and companies no longer had to fight freezing, liquid-air changes and other undesirable CO2 properties. Supply companies need only machines to charge compressed air tanks and not supplies of bottled CO2. Nitrogen was revolutionary.

Agitated loaders reloaded guns as fast as their rates-of-fire allowed them to shoot. Without agitated loaders, we'd be stuck at a very low number for ROF. Either that or we'd have to have two-man teams with us shaking large hoppers in order to get ROF at a decent rate. With the advent of agitated loaders came also developments for the warp-feed and other designs to feed paintballs faster. Agitated loaders are revolutionary.

Electric triggers let computers fire for the players so they didn't have to work so hard to get the rates-of-fire they desired. They merged electronic with mechanical. The computer helps to fire the paintball gun while the player plays paintball. Electric Triggers are revolutionary.

WHAT IN GOD'S NAME DO Lightness, Speed, prices, and Running of markers at really low pressure have that make them revolutionary? JESUS. So your gun is lighter. It's cheaper. It's designers got more efficient with the air. These concepts are true for cars, planes, iPods, phones, Nintendos, just as they are for Paintball. They are not revolutionary concepts-they are progressions of industrialization and capitalism. You might as well say today's computers are cheaper, lighter, and faster than yesterday's computers. Are they "revolutionary" because of that?

So before you start talking about how revolutionary something is, do yourself a big favor and look the word up and find out what it means before you use it.

Paintball has not come a long way since the Automag. They still have air supplies, use air-pressure to fire, and have hoppers fed mostly by gravity. Paintballs are still spherical shaped. They still use biodegradable color dyes. Paintball guns have "sorda" gotten cheaper, and lighter but, as I said before, not technologically revolutionary.

[ProblemKinder]

All the so called upgrades for the mag have been around for forever. Why don't these upgrades come stock on the automags now? Tell me that. Even the most basic automag should at least be vert feed and have cocker threads. Why isn't AGD improving there products. I mean it's so hard to find mag threaded barrels these days...

http://store.airgun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=368&categoryID=79

http://www.themagsmith.com/store/ind...iewCat&catId=6

http://www.tunamart.com/?c=47&PHPSESSID=f6219b8948d53ec878ec8ba835816424

these are the 3 most popular sites used to purchase a mag, one being from AGD directly. they all offer guns that come STOCK with vert feed, and cocker threads. one site has the OPTION to purchase a minimag, but other than that, they all come stock with what you deem to be sooo important.

the most base mag, is probably the minimag, or the classic 68 which when they were first built, cocker threads and vert feeds weren't popular, that's why the most basic mag won't have them.

[ProblemKinder]

TK has an alternate login???

/pretty sure it was AGD that first made this analogy, no?

if ninjeff starts talking about nascar, then we KNOW it's TK in disguise!

[Raffizzz]

I think he got what he needed out of this forum. Most people were trying to push a ULT on him anyway which he can't use in his gun without some cutom work. I PMed him just to put that straight but he hasn't responded so he may not have been here for a few days.

Sorry guyzzz I was out of town. I'm trying ot catch up with this thread. almost done reading it. BTW just got my intelliframe Today, and the lever 10 last week. ,

[trevorjk]

I think he got what he needed out of this forum. Most people were trying to push a ULT on him anyway which he can't use in his gun without some cutom work. I PMed him just to put that straight but he hasn't responded so he may not have been here for a few days.

i also PM'd him, now im going to walk him through setting up his LX

[Ninjeff]

if ninjeff starts talking about nascar, then we KNOW it's TK in disguise!

Nope...no nascar for me. Or mustache. Cant be TK without the 'stache.

[Tao]

Depends on your definition of "best". For me there are two critical factors: Reliability and Consistency. Some of the other aspects: Speed, Weight and Size are all IMHO fully under control. The Classic and RT/XValve are two of the most reliable designs available. The problem with the RT/XValve is that it gave up some consistency for speed. The recharging off unregulated input is a great idea, but does have it's cost in shot to shot consistency.

So, there are other things that other designs have going for them over the Classic or RT/XValve. One of the design goals for the Mini was consistency.

With a good barrel to paint match I get a consistency of +/_ 5fps tops which I don't find to be that much different.

[Hexis]

With a good barrel to paint match I get a consistency of +/_ 5fps tops which I don't find to be that much different.

I much prefer the +/- 1 fps of a couple of my other guns over the same +/- 5 fps my emag sees. I think the most consistent I ever got on one of my mags was the minimag with a Whispering Death EC (who remembers those?) on a 20oz remote CO2 tank. That was +/- 1 in short bursts. It did have all the not so fun CO2 issues.

[Thotograph]

Ninjeff, maybe you could be the anti-tk and talk about F1... Lewis Hamilton is doing great! I hope he wins again this weekend. He's a phenom...

Although I imagine TK is an F1 fan too. I remember the old vids where TK was talking about how the crown point barrel was cut to the same kind of spec that the F1 cars use for ducts that dont create drag...

How'd the install go Rafizz?

[Tao]

I much prefer the +/- 1 fps of a couple of my other guns over the same +/- 5 fps my emag sees. I think the most consistent I ever got on one of my mags was the minimag with a Whispering Death EC (who remembers those?) on a 20oz remote CO2 tank. That was +/- 1 in short bursts. It did have all the not so fun CO2 issues.

Unfortunately it is hard to really see how consistent a mag is since it fluxuates so much with single shots (when chronoing). I always wanted to know what it does in a string, but it can't be that bad since I haven't noticed shots going any farther than the others.

[Ninjeff]

Ninjeff, maybe you could be the anti-tk and talk about F1... Lewis Hamilton is doing great! I hope he wins again this weekend. He's a phenom...

Although I imagine TK is an F1 fan too. I remember the old vids where TK was talking about how the crown point barrel was cut to the same kind of spec that the F1 cars use for ducts that dont create drag...

How'd the install go Rafizz?

Given my druthers i would talk for hours, and at great length, about MotoGP racing.

Now THAT is racing.

[Hexis]

Unfortunately it is hard to really see how consistent a mag is since it fluxuates so much with single shots (when chronoing).

Funny, I see that as the very definition of inconsistency.

I always wanted to know what it does in a string, but it can't be that bad since I haven't noticed shots going any farther than the others.

That's great, after a while in a long string, shot-to-shot consistency improves. That does not help for a short string of shots, where accuracy (aka consistency) is most important. If it's not every shot, it's not consistent.