The French are Evil!

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by Rooster
"When Bush went to war he backstabbed every ally of his that is against war, he backstabbed the sanctity of every country who believes in international law, every country that believes in the sanctity of the UN."

This is quite hilarious. The UN made itself irrelevent, the US had no need to help it along that path. It refused to back up its own resolutions (not proposed resolutions, actual resolutions passed and unvetoed) and thus made itself into the world's largest, and most overpaid debating society. Iraq violated the terms of its 1991 ceasefire. This was never in question. 1441 proves it was never in question. You foam at the mouth about illegal wars. I'm sorry to break it to you, but the violation of a ceasefire agreement is a very legal method for waging a war. President Bush backstabbed no one in the procescution of this war. This was no sneak attack. This was an opperation perfectly legal by the standards of international law (if such a thing ever existed without the US enforcing it). I'm not accusing Germany or Russia of the same things I'm accusing France of. France deliberately tried to use any method, including sending diplomats to swing vote countries to try to railroad them into voting with the french. That is not the actions of an ally.

France can burn, and I will laugh. As far as I'm concerned it no longer even exists. Its a shame some of my great uncles had to die in such a worthless place.

The violation of a cease fire is means to take action to bring the country into agreement with the ceasefire agreements, not to invade said country.

The US sent diplomats to foreign countries bribing them with oil conessions and such after the war in order to look like it was in the plus on this matter.

Do you think that the Genevea accords or the Gulf of Tonkein Resolutions, or the SEATO pact also gave us power to go into Veitnam.

It is a shame you are as ignorant about this as you are, you are so filled with hate that you can not see what is in front of you.

[shartley]

Originally posted by Collegeboy


So Iraq was legal in its invasion of Kuwait in 1990. I mean Iraq is a country, and it can decide on its own what it wants to do.

HOW CAN YOU PUNISH SOMEONE FOR BEING AGINST YOU. THAT IS UNAMERICAN, UNDEMOCRATIC, AND PLAIN WRONG.

Shame on you for thinking that a citizen of the US can not point the finger at his own country. that sort of action has lead only to death and destruction through the history of the world.

[aaron_mag]

Originally posted by Rooster
France can burn, and I will laugh. As far as I'm concerned it no longer even exists. Its a shame some of my great uncles had to die in such a worthless place.

Have you been there? This is the kind of sentiment in the U.S. that disturbs me. Some may say that France has anti-American sentiment (something I don't really believe) and if they dislike us we can dislike them right back. French attitude, however, does not bother me since they are NOT my country! Perhaps I really am a typical "arrogant American" since I would like to believe our citizenry takes the high road.

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by shartley

[superdesk2007]

I don't think think the President really thought about peace. With the massive build up of troops in the region
there was no way we would not invade. Thats what happened in WWI except lots more troops.

Another thing, the French Don't like War, have you guys seen their casuilties in WWI? They lost their will to fight.

I know its off the subject but I'm to lazy to look for other threads

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by superdesk2007
I don't think think the President really thought about peace. With the massive build up of troops in the region
there was no way we would not invade. Thats what happened in WWI except lots more troops.

Another thing, the French Don't like War, have you guys seen their casuilties in WWI? They lost their will to fight.

I know its off the subject but I'm to lazy to look for other threads

The French have never lost their will to fight.

[shartley]

Originally posted by Collegeboy

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by shartley

Believe me I know all about Px's. In Bosnia they have mobile PX's and in some areas they still have tents. Meaning they are there temporary. But in Iraq they are building buildings, not using temporary measures, but building permanent or extended stay facilities. Please know about these things before you post. And yes the US pulling out of Saudi Arabia and the US in Iraq are together, not separate.

The US invaded Iraq illegally. They had no UN resolution to back backing their invasion. They had no UN mandate calling for the removal of Saddam and his party.

The UN should step into Iraq and stop the US, but they won't, the same reason the president and other members of this war will not be charged with war crimes. The US is too powerful for anything to be done. But let it be a smaller nation do the exact same thing, the outcome will be different. But that doesn't make the US's actions right or legal.

List this actions, for I have heard so many rumors that it is pitiful, half the stuff being told is false the other half is suspicious. So what has been proven that the French did.

No I have never bashed the US. I dislike Bush for he is an idiot who wouldn't know how to tie his shoes if his advisors didn't help him. Remember Mr. President. Make a bunny ear, wrap the lace around the bunny ear, yes that is good.

No your thought process should be questioned with the stuff you come up with.

[shartley]

[FactsOfLife]

Originally posted by Collegeboy

Blah blah blah blaaaaah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blaaaaah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blaaaaah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blaaaaah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blaaaaah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blaaaaah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blaaaaah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah. Hum, interesting.

no, not really.

[superdesk2007]

Originally posted by Collegeboy


The French have never lost their will to fight.

What I meant was the French people have lost the will to fight, not the leaders. Look at WWII they just rolled over, the French people didn't care people wouldn't deliver messages to generals because it was their lunch break. Incompetant generals helped.

My Mother who spent years in France learned they didn't have the will to.


I would like to say something else while I'm on the subject;
the Maginot Line DID work it made the Germans go through Belguim and Luxemburg.

[FactsOfLife]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
I dislike Bush for he is an idiot who wouldn't know how to tie his shoes if his advisors didn't help him. Remember Mr. President. Make a bunny ear, wrap the lace around the bunny ear, yes that is good.

And the reason will out.

Finally you admit why you're the way you are.

Nothing but being petty.

Bravo, you and your education.

Guess what. Bush has his MBA. And you?

That's what I thought.

Schmuck.

[superdesk2007]

I agree with collegboy that the invasion was illegal,
We went in on the rumors that they have WMD's and helped terrorists.

Let's not forget we wanted Saddam to kill a leader in Iraq in the 60's or 70's

[superdesk2007]

I also agree with collegeboy about Bush, who in my opinion has gone way to far. Several years from now we will reinstate the draft because our forces will be all over the world which will instigate terrorists.

Thats all I have to say.

[aaron_mag]

CB- I think your stance on the legality of the Iraq invasion is foolish when it comes to a nation that props up the U.N. (which we do). In this case invasion, war, and national security are not the arenas of legal debating and the quoting of of obscure laws.

The real issue is that of national interest. Was it in the national interest of the U.S. to invade Iraq without U.N. backing? Is it in the national interest for the U.S. to prop up an organization for the U.N. as an example for other countries to try and use the U.N. as a means of solving conflicts peacefully? Also now that the war is over the issue becomes is the U.S. going to find itself with problems in another country that have little to do with its national interests (i.e. long term peacekeeping)? Finally now that the war is over should the U.S. try to reform bonds with NATO allies? These are the central issues and here is where many of us disagree on the board. Few Americans worry about the legality of it all or whether our President should be tried for breaking international laws. Only a fool (sorry but it is the truth) would think that it is in our national interests to see a U.S. president on trail in international courts. Surely you can see that the very concept is ridiculous as we are the country that bears the majority of the responsibility in propping up such concepts as international law.

On some points I agree with you. I think we plan on having a presence in Iraq for some time (beyond peace keeping). I think we are planning on installing a regime that is friendly to us and will be reliant on us (and while this is not as enlightened and high minded as our propaganda of Iraqi freedom that does not necessarily mean that it is a bad deal for the Iraqi people). There is a strong argument that this arrangement will be good for the Iraqi people and good for the U.S. as well. To say that is not the case is ridiculous. The problem I have, however, is listening to citizens proclaiming we are there purely for Iraqi interests because we heard of their plight and came to their rescue. Let the administration play that angle but let us at least admit to ourselves that we (like the French, Germans, and Russians) are there primarily for our interest and not be hypocrites and cast stones. The other issue for me is that I don't think that the destruction of the U.N. is in the best interests of the United States and I especially don't think that our interests in Iraq outweigh our interests in keeping the U.N. propped up. Finally I think that we are being totally niave in thinking that we are going to install a regime friendly to us (with them waving U.S. flags and falling to their knees and thanking us whenever we happen to drive by in a Humvee). I worry we will be forced to pull out as the local population grows in hostility and that we may have expended all of the man power (including precious casulties of war on both sides) and resources just to see another unfriendly regime unfold. So in the end I don't think it was a good idea to invade without a U.N. mandate (which I think was entirely possible with more diplomacy) and I worry about our continued occupation of the region. The legality of the whole issue, however, is a moot point and really not worth arguing about.

EDITED FOR ERRORS