WHY is everything made in China

[Collegeboy]

I didn't say that to make myself look smart. I did it for it is a true saying that I happen to like. Ignorance is when one is willing to fix his unknowing, stupidity is when one refuses to do so. So ignorance can be educated, but stupidity last forever.

That is the problem, China, USSR, etc.. Was never communist, so by calling them communist, you might as well call the US communist, for both are about equally true.

How can you have capitalism in a communist system?

How can you have an authoritarian government in a communist system?

How can you have a government in a communist system?

How can you have a vast difference of wages in a communist system?

etc.............

[Jack_Dubious]

Basil Exposition: Austin, the Cold War is over!
Austin Powers: Finally those capitalist pigs will pay for their crimes, eh? Eh comrades? Eh?
Basil Exposition: Austin... we won.
Austin Powers: Oh, smashing, groovy, yay capitalism!

JDub

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by aaron_mag

Please don't call him that! 7 of 9 was an object of lust and desire. Calling a male 7 of 9 is just wrong.

Okay, I'll start calling him Loqutus (sp?) of Borg!

Once more you go back to insulting gamers. I'm sure people CB argues with who have never played paintball tell him to go back and assimilate weak minded paintballers.

Sorry, it's just that gamers are such easy targets! They don't move much. I mean come on, I could bunker a whole table of D&D players before they knew what hit them!

We can equally wonder what the author of Lysistrata would say about those who bring up obscure references to ancient greek authors to make them seem learned and wise. I have a feeling that Aristophanes satirical wit would be in rare form much to your dismay!

CB don't you notice that no one is saying that China and Cuba is communism in the vein of Marx and Engels? If the thread was about the Communist Manifesto or communist theory in general your arguments would make some sense. Instead you are arguing that using the word communist to describe China and Cuba is wrong. The U.S. did not put the label of communism on the ruling parties in those countries by the way....

AM,
We definitely need to meet! You are much more fun to debate with then CB. You actually look at BOTH sides of an argument as well!

Take that CB, er Loqutus of Borg!

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
I didn't say that to make myself look smart. I did it for it is a true saying that I happen to like. Ignorance is when one is willing to fix his unknowing, stupidity is when one refuses to do so. So ignorance can be educated, but stupidity last forever.

Then you had better watch out for yourself!

That is the problem, China, USSR, etc.. Was never communist, so by calling them communist, you might as well call the US communist, for both are about equally true.


Except they labeled themselves Communist, not us!

How can you have capitalism in a communist system?

How can you have an authoritarian government in a communist system?

How can you have a government in a communist system?

How can you have a vast difference of wages in a communist system?

etc.............

Easy, there is no true or pure form of anything. China and the like have their Practical version of communism. If you are talking about oxymoron's, how about a constitutional monarchy? That makes sense?

[aaron_mag]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
I didn't say that to make myself look smart. I did it for it is a true saying that I happen to like. Ignorance is when one is willing to fix his unknowing, stupidity is when one refuses to do so. So ignorance can be educated, but stupidity last forever.

...and the question you should be asking yourself (that we should all be asking ourselves at all times) is which one are you? I'm not trying to be insulting but I'm trying to point out a personality quirk you don't seem to even be aware of. I have disagreed with Shartley and 1stdeadeye on practically every political discussion we have had on this board yet never do I tell them to read up on something then come back to me when the are educated. I might call them pig headed, misinformed, idiots, etc. but your insinuation that you have some secret source of knowledge that the rest of us just haven't come across (which by the way we have) is just arrogant.

When I tell 1stdeadeye he is wrong and a fool (both mostly true BTW:)) it is a comment of an equal exasperated by another's opinions. The comment of "go read and come back" is one of a teacher dismissing an errant an ungifted student. Do you wonder why people have a hard time swallowing that attitude?

Furthermore on your comment about being the most moral person on the board I'd also like to submit that it is an illusion. Often in college (and this was true for myself as well) we feel we have the illusion of greater morality because we are living in a false world that is supported by the supposed corrupt society that we readily denounce.

[1stdeadeye]

Thanks, I think....

Originally posted by aaron_mag


...and the question you should be asking yourself (that we should all be asking ourselves at all times) is which one are you? I'm not trying to be insulting but I'm trying to point out a personality quirk you don't seem to even be aware of. I have disagreed with Shartley and 1stdeadeye on practically every political discussion we have had on this board yet never do I tell them to read up on something then come back to me when the are educated. I might call them pig headed, misinformed, idiots, etc. Thanks! I think..... but your insinuation that you have some secret source of knowledge that the rest of us just haven't come across (which by the way we have) is just arrogant.

When I tell 1stdeadeye he is wrong and a fool (both mostly true BTW:)) I know you are, but what am I? it is a comment of an equal exasperated by another's opinions. The comment of "go read and come back" is one of a teacher dismissing an errant an ungifted student. Do you wonder why people have a hard time swallowing that attitude?

Furthermore on your comment about being the most moral person on the board I'd also like to submit that it is an illusion. Often in college (and this was true for myself as well) we feel we have the illusion of greater morality because we are living in a false world that is supported by the supposed corrupt society that we readily denounce.

AMEN!!!
Except for the commentary on my views! I am always right as I own the X-Mag!

[Collegeboy]

So the pratical form of communism is "socialism" with a splash of captitalism?

And I do look at both sides of an arguement. It is just when the other side doesn't have an arguement I can't be expected to see it.

See 1de, while I am ignorant of many things, I am at the least willing to learn that which I am ignorant of. That is the difference
AM

If you ever have meet me, you will understand what I am talking about. It has nothing to do with me being in college. It is me.

There is nothing wrong with asking people to look up or whatever the topic we are discussing. I look at people who are debating this issue, and one thing comes to my mind. People who have never picked up anything on the issue, and is just going by their own preformed opinions bases on years of hatred of "communism." All I am asking is for people to gain knowledge of the subject matter before trying to say that someone with a little more knowledge then them is wrong. (And yes I do have a little bit more knowledge, though I am still FARRRRRRRR from completly understanding it). It is not arrogance, it is true.

The other side to this debate says that communism has evolved over the course of history. Which is true, but it has never and will never evolve to what you all call communism today. There is no way that communism can have any capitalism in it, there is no way that communism can have any government, there is no way that communism can have an authoritarian government etc......

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
So the pratical form of communism is "socialism" with a splash of captitalism?

Maybe not the practical, but the practiced. If that is what their attempt at "true" communism evolved into, that is what it is!

And I do look at both sides of an arguement. It is just when the other side doesn't have an arguement I can't be expected to see it.

Here I honestly think that you believe this. It's just we all see the other side having an argument and since that does not fit into your mindset, you dismiss it out of hand. Many fine analogies have been placed in this thread: Christianity, Killer Whales, Concept Cars, "True" Democracy; yet you fail to acknowledge any of them. You are like a moving target. Once someone hits you, you jump to another point, or topic.

See 1de, while I am ignorant of many things, I am at the least willing to learn that which I am ignorant of. That is the difference

Yes, you are indeed ignorant! (Better not let Facts see you proclaiming your own ignorance )

AM

If you ever have meet me, you will understand what I am talking about. It has nothing to do with me being in college. It is me.

There is nothing wrong with asking people to look up or whatever the topic we are discussing. I look at people who are debating this issue, and one thing comes to my mind. People who have never picked up anything on the issue, and is just going by their own preformed opinions bases on years of hatred of "communism." All I am asking is for people to gain knowledge of the subject matter before trying to say that someone with a little more knowledge then them is wrong. (And yes I do have a little bit more knowledge, though I am still FARRRRRRRR from completly understanding it). It is not arrogance, it is true.

The other side to this debate says that communism has evolved over the course of history. Which is true, but it has never and will never evolve to what you all call communism today. There is no way that communism can have any capitalism in it, there is no way that communism can have any government, there is no way that communism can have an authoritarian government etc......

Think EVOLUTION!

[shartley]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
So the pratical form of communism is "socialism" with a splash of captitalism?

Nope. Where did you get THAT from? From what we see now in China? Which is different than what we saw in China 30 years ago. Which is different than we see in Cuba. Which is different than we saw in the USSR.

Originally posted by Collegeboy
And I do look at both sides of an arguement. It is just when the other side doesn't have an arguement I can't be expected to see it.

Originally posted by Collegeboy
See 1de, while I am ignorant of many things, I am at the least willing to learn that which I am ignorant of. That is the difference
AM

Originally posted by Collegeboy
If you ever have meet me, you will understand what I am talking about. It has nothing to do with me being in college. It is me.

Originally posted by Collegeboy
There is nothing wrong with asking people to look up or whatever the topic we are discussing. I look at people who are debating this issue, and one thing comes to my mind. People who have never picked up anything on the issue, and is just going by their own preformed opinions bases on years of hatred of "communism." All I am asking is for people to gain knowledge of the subject matter before trying to say that someone with a little more knowledge then them is wrong. (And yes I do have a little bit more knowledge, though I am still FARRRRRRRR from completly understanding it). It is not arrogance, it is true.

Originally posted by Collegeboy
The other side to this debate says that communism has evolved over the course of history. Which is true, but it has never and will never evolve to what you all call communism today. There is no way that communism can have any capitalism in it, there is no way that communism can have any government, there is no way that communism can have an authoritarian government etc......

[Collegeboy]

Shartly.

1de said that China's, the USSR's and etc.. forms of "communism" was todays practical communism. Since the USSR, and China are socialism with a splash of capitalism, or at times capitalism with a splash of socialism in the USSR, that must be what practical communism is. If that is the case then most european countries are communist, and the US is communist to.

The problem with defining or saying that communism evolved into what it is said to be today is that communism was a system of government that the said country was to reach when they went through the steps of withering away the government and such. No country went from democracy and straight into communism. You had a long process to go through. This is something you would learn if you would research Engel's Withering away of the state idea, and it is further explained in Lenin's State and revolution. But you all refuse too. By saying that China and the USSR was communist, implies that they have reached communism. Which as anyone who has read or researched anything with the idea will know that these countries went backwards from day one.


No you and your side does not have an argument, but you fail to see that.

If you would read on the subject, you will see the dictionary is wrong. It is not me just saying it is wrong to back my side, it is it actually being wrong.

No there is more to knowledge then books, anyone should know that. It just happens that to this subject most of the info lies in books. And no I am not trying to prove how smart I am. If I was doing that I would post my SAT, ACT, IQ, etc...... and actually type better. but I could care if you think I am smart or dumb.

So having strong morals is a pathetic thing? (Next time read more please)

Again you place all blame on me. Yes I made the true statement that China is not communist. the you all took it and wanted to debate it. If anything, we are all kings og hijacking. But just like you always do, you try and blame it on me.

1de, Once your realize that communism can not be practices since it is impossible, the better you will get.

I do look at both sides of the argument, you just have to have on for me to change my mind. You say that i do not look at both sides, yet you argue against me every time, never change your idea, yet you claim I am not looking at both sides. Kind of funny there is it not.

I could care less what facts says. All he knows how to post is one line insults.

[LIGHTEMUP]

o god look what i started you guys have all gone nuts i just needed a lil information by the way im doin my presentation on tuesday wish me luck

[71 LS6]

What an idea!!

I believe I have come up with a solution to our problem with the word 'communist.' None of us like the fact that whenever someone says the word 'communist'in his post someone (CB) yells ignorance and calls him wrong, and the whole thread goes down the drain. Therefore, I move that we now type 'SEC,' for 'Self-Entitled Communist,' instead of typing 'communist.' Maybe this way we can carry on a discussion that includes nations who are SEC without turning it into an argument over whether they really were 'communist,' or if they were just SEC. In other words, I see this as a necessary precaution to avoid 'hijacking' in the future.

Good Luck LIGHTMEUP, just be sure not to say 'communist' in your presentation, it will reveal your ignorace .

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by LIGHTEMUP
o god look what i started you guys have all gone nuts i just needed a lil information by the way im doin my presentation on tuesday wish me luck

I hope that we have been of some help (well in the first couple of pages. Good luck.

Don't worry about how this thread has turned out. Any thread dealing with anything like "politics" or in realation to it, normally turns out like this.

To 71 LS6. I am not sure about China specifically, but I am pretty sure that none of the marxist following countries have ever claimed that they have reached communism. They might call one another communist as a title. But I am pretty sure, I know for sure in the USSR's case, that they would not say they have reached communism. In fact the USSR gave up on the idea of reaching communism under Brehznev.

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
1de said that China's, the USSR's and etc.. forms of "communism" was todays practical communism. Since the USSR, and China are socialism with a splash of capitalism, or at times capitalism with a splash of socialism in the USSR, that must be what practical communism is. If that is the case then most european countries are communist, and the US is communist to.

I then ammended it to practiced. This is a better choice of words then Practical.

Again you place all blame on me. Yes I made the true statement that China is not communist. the you all took it and wanted to debate it. If anything, we are all kings og hijacking. But just like you always do, you try and blame it on me.

Just put that picture in your sig and you are all set!

1de, Once your realize that communism can not be practices since it is impossible, the better you will get.

Tell that to the Chinese or better yet all of the little Communist Parties throughout Europe! Tell them that you are right and they are wrong.

I do look at both sides of the argument, you just have to have on for me to change my mind. You say that i do not look at both sides, yet you argue against me every time, never change your idea, yet you claim I am not looking at both sides. Kind of funny there is it not.

Not everytime. We have agreed once or twice in past threads. Further, I did tell everyone to not talk about your father during one of the many French Thread Debates!

It just so happens that most of the time, you are spoiling for a debate regardless of the "Facts" (pun intended). I mean do you remember the whole "Concentration Camp" arguement. You were so determined to paint the one or two Palestinians you met as victims that you perverted the Dictionary's and History's meaning! That is Frustrating To Everyone Else. Can't you see that?

P.S. Do not reopen that debate or so help me I'll fly to 'bama to Bunker your Butt!!!!!

I could care less what facts says. All he knows how to post is one line insults.

Actually a few of them have been funny, Loqutus of Borg!

[Collegeboy]

But what I said in that thread about the Palestinians was true. Most Palestinians are victums. ( I will end it there)

Take a look at China, they are not going towards communism, they are going away from it. From the second they said that they will be communist they went further and further away from the idea. Mao started out decent, but power corrupted him, and an authortiarian, repressive government took place. Something that is far from what communism is.

Most people think that is communism, for they think that China and the USSR were or are communist. Once you dispell the myth that these countries were never communist, then people will have to change their whole idea about the system of government that has been tainted as evil for so many years by the west.

And I appreciate what you said, he had no busniess saying that about my father or me.

When it comes to poltical debates it is normally me agianst those who post in these threads. No side moves on their ideas, yet I am said to be the one who fails to look on both sides. That is kind of stupid. My whole logic is to look on both sides, weigh ideas against mine and see how they can stack up. Do you all think that I haven't heard your ideas at one time or a other before. And at no time have they been presented in a way in which to change my train of thought.

I am such an easy target to argue against. I fall under the age old miss guided group. I am young, I am a high ed student, I like to read books and gain knowledge through them along with many other ways, and many other things. The funny thing is as a student of history, one will see that through out time, those like yourself, Shartly and others, have always used those arguements against people like me. And 9 time out of 10, the ideas of that "missguided person" turned out to be what was taught to the next generation.

As people get older they turn their ignorance into stupidity. They go from acceptaing their lack of knowledge and willingness to learn new ideas, to always thinking they are right, unwillingness to accept new ideas. Maybe this change comes with the tendacy of life. The tendacy of the "real world", in which life hampers new thoughts, new ideas. Where you have no time to think different because you are working 50 hours to pay for food and clothing on 3 children a wife and pay a mortage on a 100,000 dollar 3 bedroom house in suburbia. Maybe it comes with the calness of growing older and a settling in on your ways. I don't know, all I know is that most of the time it happens. And every generation, the generation before tries to hamper the new generation's ideas. The only solace that will come from this is most of the time the new generation will come out on top.

Hopefully when I get you alls age, the world will think different then it does now. Hopefully the world will throw away the cold war ideas of wrong and right, and start thinking. The world is not black and white, it is full of shades of grey. Maybe this is asking too much of human beings, (well I know it is too much), but they what would the world be like without dreams. What is so bad about asking the question why. Why do they do this?