What is happening to America (Rant)

[ythpstr2000]

acceptable dictate your wardrobe. You may be somewhere in between, but before you cast stones over something that is clearly not dictated in scripture (Thou shalt wear a shirt and tie, is not scripture) realize that issues like this that are not dealt with in The Book are truly between God and the individual, and unless you are God, or that outfit or behavior is distracting to others, you may want to keep your nose out of it. All your good intentions are nothing if you find yourself battling God's will for someone else.

[RTDynaflow]

acceptable dictate your wardrobe. You may be somewhere in between, but before you cast stones over something that is clearly not dictated in scripture (Thou shalt wear a shirt and tie, is not scripture) realize that issues like this that are not dealt with in The Book are truly between God and the individual, and unless you are God, or that outfit or behavior is distracting to others, you may want to keep your nose out of it. All your good intentions are nothing if you find yourself battling God's will for someone else.

Awesome post! When I was younger I would have truelly appreciated someone like you.

[lather]

Jesus Christ dressed rather simply and had a rather unkempt appearance--Somehow I dont think he showed any disrespect towards his Father.

I wouldnt be so concerned about someone's appearance so much as long as they are in church receiving the Word of God..

[bornl33t]

respect went out the window when kids started thinking it was cool to call the cops on the major for taking their boards after they got done disrespecting the major by skating where they were told not too...




sorry, couldn't resist

[1stdeadeye]

This thread made me realize how hypocritcal 1de is.

Thorums are for goofing.

I am not saying you have to wear a suit to church. Just nothing you would wear that is distracting or dirty. No playing video games during church. Is that to much?

[Crime Dog]

Asking someone not to play video games during a worship service is more than appropriate. I have no problem with that. Asking someone that knows better, not to wear immodest clothing is entirely appropriate. If they don't have anything else, show your faith by buying them clothes that ARE appropriate. I've heard plenty of stories of people that came to faith in Christ, who's past included a wardrobe of "innappropriate" clothing. It's all they had, and they couldn't afford new clothes. They longed to dress modestly. People of their church showed true love in Christ, and BOUGHT them clothing, rather than complain about how she was dressed. That's faith showing itself in true life.

Now then:

"Dress properly or don't come." Forget who said that, but, you've missed the entire point of the Gospel. God NEVER said, "Clean yourself up first, THEN come to me." He said, "Come to me, and _I_ will clean you up." You're getting the cart before the horse. Don't get me wrong: If someone is dressing that way on purpose, and being rebellious, then yes, they need to be pulled off to the side privately, and be asked to please not come dressed like that again (or to put the Gameboy away, or whatever.) But remember, again: "MAN looks at the outward appearance, but God looks at the heart."

Want to show true respect to God: Be consistent in your witness. That includes not posting inappropriate material on the "Thorums". Ephesians 5:4 (NIV) "Neither should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather, thanksgiving." Tie that in with the passage in Hosea 6:6 (NIV) "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgement of God rather than burnt offerings." In otherwords, God is more interested in the "inner man", your consistent life before Him, rather than "surface issues" like dress in church. Coarse joking, "goofing" or not are more disrespectful than someone wearing jeans in church. I've browsed the Thorums. Not sure what any purpose a professed Believer would have in posting there. Not to harp...but, since it was brought up, and I'm trying to make the point that your heart and consistent walk with God are more important than wearing tshirts to church...

[shartley]

Thorums are for goofing.

I am not saying you have to wear a suit to church. Just nothing you would wear that is distracting or dirty. No playing video games during church. Is that to much?

acceptable dictate your wardrobe. You may be somewhere in between, but before you cast stones over something that is clearly not dictated in scripture (Thou shalt wear a shirt and tie, is not scripture) realize that issues like this that are not dealt with in The Book are truly between God and the individual, and unless you are God, or that outfit or behavior is distracting to others, you may want to keep your nose out of it. All your good intentions are nothing if you find yourself battling God's will for someone else.

[-=Squid=-]

May as well post this... I figgured he would post something over there, being the stupid hypocrite that he is...

" Bump to the top for this whining [B word]!

Stay the [F word] out of my church and I won't whip your candy [A word]! "


1stdeadeye, I never thought I would say this, but you are retarded. I am sure Jesus loves you for this.

I'm sure that you are about to pull out one of your X-TREME smileys to show how you feel again... Trust me, it really gets your point across.




Not.




F.

[ythpstr2000]

Let me answer that with a question so that you can come to your own answer. Did the actions of Jesus or the way he dressed make Him stick out? My answer is His actions, because he was dressed like His target audience.

Your thoughts on why someone would be offended are off as well. It has nothing to do with whether we are in the same age group or not.

I believe it does. No one in my Church has EVER complained about me wearing jeans and a shirt. If I were to attend another church, a church thats more "mature" than my own, chances are that would not be accepted. Chances are that the youth ministry would consist of a dark damp hole in the basement were kids were taught all the "Thou shalt not's" till they were thoroughly indoctrinated or thoroughly disgusted. I see this argument almost as ridicoulas as the arguments I have heard that say that there is no such thing as Christian Rock or Rap. To those that are serious about Youth Ministry its easy to recognize that God has nothing against a particular Music style and that trying to win the kids over with the Gaither's just is not gonna happen. Similarly, trying to get them to wear a shirt and tie will not help spread the Word, and I doubt God really does have a prefrence between Docker's or Levi's.

We ALL know how clothes are suppose to fit. We ALL know that your belly should not be showing because you are wearing a shirt that comes just under your breasts. We ALL know that clean clothes should be worn when in a public or group setting. We ALL know that ripped clothes are something that should not be worn at certain places. And the list goes on and on.

Yes, just as we all know I addressed that already...

For a minister to teens, trends that are acceptable dictate your wardrobe. You may be somewhere in between, but before you cast stones over something that is clearly not dictated in scripture (Thou shalt wear a shirt and tie, is not scripture) realize that issues like this that are not dealt with in The Book are truly between God and the individual, and unless you are God, or that outfit or behavior is distracting to others, you may want to keep your nose out of it. All your good intentions are nothing if you find yourself battling God's will for someone else.

And we would not be having this conversation if you knew how many times my wife has talked to young girls about dressing modestly. I NEVER condoned wearing anything innapropriate or distracting. How is it that you read that into my post when I made sure that I addressed that in particular?

And I CLEARLY addressed that. You know Shartley this is not the first time you have taken my posts out of context to try and rip me. Wish I could go back and get an example but since the forums crashed previously...
If you have a beef with me then I suggest getting it out in a PM or email.

[madmolly]

Normally I would not but...

Normally I stay out of arguments of religion. This just pissed me off.
1stdeadeye. It is people like you that made me quit going to church. People that actually look around and care what other people are wearing. People that stick their noses up at people wearing jeans god forbid. As for kids playing gameboys. As long as they are quiet leave them alone. There time will come for them to make a decision. As for some girl in hip huggers why do you care. Would you rather have them out on the street or in the church. It is people like you that are going to make heaven a real bummer.

[shartley]

Let me answer that with a question so that you can come to your own answer. Did the actions of Jesus or the way he dressed make Him stick out? My answer is His actions, because he was dressed like His target audience.


I believe it does. No one in my Church has EVER complained about me wearing jeans and a shirt. If I were to attend another church, a church thats more "mature" than my own, chances are that would not be accepted. Chances are that the youth ministry would consist of a dark damp hole in the basement were kids were taught all the "Thou shalt not's" till they were thoroughly indoctrinated or thoroughly disgusted. I see this argument almost as ridicoulas as the arguments I have heard that say that there is no such thing as Christian Rock or Rap. To those that are serious about Youth Ministry its easy to recognize that God has nothing against a particular Music style and that trying to win the kids over with the Gaither's just is not gonna happen. Similarly, trying to get them to wear a shirt and tie will not help spread the Word, and I doubt God really does have a prefrence between Docker's or Levi's.


Yes, just as we all know I addressed that already...



And we would not be having this conversation if you knew how many times my wife has talked to young girls about dressing modestly. I NEVER condoned wearing anything innapropriate or distracting. How is it that you read that into my post when I made sure that I addressed that in particular?


And I CLEARLY addressed that. You know Shartley this is not the first time you have taken my posts out of context to try and rip me. Wish I could go back and get an example but since the forums crashed previously...
If you have a beef with me then I suggest getting it out in a PM or email.

[ythpstr2000]

If I am not the one with the beef, then why would I PM or email you? It just seems like if I take a position I can count on you taking the opposite, and if a statement I say is 99% clear, you will assume the 1% that it most likely is not, just as the present example shows. No one but you took my statements to include unacceptable or distracting clothing/behavior. I made it pretty clear those things were not acceptable to me yet you PUBLICLY tried to smear my words, yet now you try to "take the high road" and basicly tell me that my intentions must be otherwise based on that I DEFENDED myself publicly and reccomended you take any beef you have with me to a PM. Give me a break. You attack me publicly and you want me to take it to a PM so the public smear with no response remains? You try to change what I said and then dont want me to point out your obvious twisting of my words?

Anyway, You show me where it states that I should not wear jeans and a Tshirt in Church and I am with you. Convince God or the pastors that my dress is innapropriate, and once they tell me I will comply. Of course knowing my pastors they're response will probably be to question wether your religion has not clouded the relationship you are supposed to have with God and others. Seems to me we are once again falling into the hole of majoring on the minors. If Jesus can look to his side at a man hanging on a cross most likely in tatered clothes and tell him he was accepted, who are we to judge? I dont see anything saying clothing has anything to do with heaven or hell, except for in the figuritive sense such as the wedding garment in Matt 22. It may seem that when looking at Tradition you may have a point, but unless you are talking about clothing that is distracting or prevocative, you scripturally do not. There is NOTHING scriptural against jeans and a tshirt even in the house of God. Now here is the question...are you called to follow scripture, or man made traditions?

[shartley]

If I am not the one with the beef, then why would I PM or email you? It just seems like if I take a position I can count on you taking the opposite, and if a statement I say is 99% clear, you will assume the 1% that it most likely is not, just as the present example shows. No one but you took my statements to include unacceptable or distracting clothing/behavior. I made it pretty clear those things were not acceptable to me yet you PUBLICLY tried to smear my words, yet now you try to "take the high road" and basicly tell me that my intentions must be otherwise based on that I DEFENDED myself publicly and reccomended you take any beef you have with me to a PM. Give me a break. You attack me publicly and you want me to take it to a PM so the public smear with no response remains? You try to change what I said and then dont want me to point out your obvious twisting of my words?

Anyway, You show me where it states that I should not wear jeans and a Tshirt in Church and I am with you. Convince God or the pastors that my dress is innapropriate, and once they tell me I will comply. Of course knowing my pastors they're response will probably be to question wether your religion has not clouded the relationship you are supposed to have with God and others. Seems to me we are once again falling into the hole of majoring on the minors. If Jesus can look to his side at a man hanging on a cross most likely in tatered clothes and tell him he was accepted, who are we to judge? I dont see anything saying clothing has anything to do with heaven or hell, except for in the figuritive sense such as the wedding garment in Matt 22. It may seem that when looking at Tradition you may have a point, but unless you are talking about clothing that is distracting or prevocative, you scripturally do not. There is NOTHING scriptural against jeans and a tshirt even in the house of God. Now here is the question...are you called to follow scripture, or man made traditions?

[Rebel46_99]

I'm atheist, make all the comments you want. I regret turning away from Christianity, but it was something that seemed to be out of my control. I started questioning my faith when I was in confirmation, and I partially blame my pastor because he couldn't answer some of my questions and worked around others, and it was sometime after that that I completely lost my faith. It wasn't something I wanted to happen, but I had so many questions and so few answers, and I just didn't know what was the truth. Some of you may be thinking that I'm just some punk that wants to stand out, but that's not it at all. I would give anything to be Christian again, because nothing is worse than the feeling you get when you realize that 100 years is all the time you have to live. And it's not easy to turn back; I can't just start going to church again and miraculously regain my faith. It would be about as hard to make me a believer again as it would to turn me gay, it's not simple. For now I am but a prodigal, trying to find my way home.

Captain... The very fact that you are trying to find your way HOME tells me that you are not an atheist. Yes, your faith has been shaken because a mortal man did not have the answers you sought, yet it seems obvious that in your heart you still have a belief in God. As someone else mentioned, there is always someone else to turn to for answers. It may not be your specific priest/pastor/rabbi or elder, but that shouldn't stop you from asking the leaders of other churches. Who knows, they just might be able to point you in the proper direction.

With that said..... I, myself have not been "in church" for years. Does that make me a bad person? I don't believe it does because I still have a firm belief that there is a Creator. Let me re-state the "in church" comment. I have not been in a "MAN-MADE" church. I grew disgusted when I heard a Catholic priest, literally, berate his congregation because the boxes for canned foods weren't filled at Easter. If I'm not mistaken, I go to church to pay my respects to The ALMIGHTY, ....NOT to be berated because of the almighty dollar.
Since that time, I find no place more comforting than being out in the country or in the woods. To me there is no greater cathedral than to be standing in a wooded area, away from any distractions (phones, cars, tv's). I know He sees me physically and and spiritually every day, 24/7. But at moments like that He also knows He has my undivided attention.

I was told many years ago, "It's not that God doesn't answer prayers. It's just that sometimes the answer is "No".

Never give up searching for your answers, Captain.

DW

[ythpstr2000]

"Persecution Complex" eh? I have no issues with people who disagree with me. What I do take issues with is people who CONSISTENTLY argue with me just to argue. If you trully did agree with me, than WHY did you attack my post. If it were as you say then WHY did you try to make it look as though I said something I clearly didnt. I have had major disagreements with people like smiley on Paintmag and Alexi on PBR, yet never taken anything personal. I will let my track record speak for itself in regards to your "Persecution Complex" claim, but I see it as nothing more than another way to try and discredit me.