Ya know, I am about "over it".....

[DevilMan]

I do

I sleep better knowing I give 0 dollars to smart parts for F'ing over paintball. Now, I will agree with you that it wasn't 100% them, but their actions, and then blatantly ripping off AGD technology afterwards, well that doesn't jive with me.

The fact that you're standing behind them is weird though, I mean you must see what they have done?

Wasted effort MP.... There is a reason too many are referred to as Sheeple.

DM

To interject my stance on it since this is a thread discussing it. Just because a company makes money from making a product and then goes after all the others out there that pose competition DOES NOT mean that they do it fairly or legitimately. If you step back and look. SP didn't even MAKE MARKERS!!! PARTS is what they made. They rode on the coattails of folks with ideas and ingenuity that put guns together and got them produced. SP just made PARTS for those guns. Up until they got to the point where they copied and made their own and then they climbed the coattails and stabbed their host in the back. If that's cool with you then please make sure and keep my name off of your invite list.

[Beemer]

snip

Ya ok I get what you say. One thing is for sure is you dont know all the facts from the inside and there is much you miss from the outside.

Look here for some help. This link rocks.

http://www.ody.ca/~cwells/history.htm

"1991 Tom Kaye (the inventor of the Automag) and the staff at Air Gun Designs developed the first nitrogen system for paintball along with fiberglass tanks. It was not marketed, as the industry felt high pressure nitrogen was simply too dangerous. Today however, it's hard to find players in large tournaments still running CO2. Tom refused to patent the regulated nitrogen system for the sake of the sport, since he felt it was a superior power source over CO2."

Oh boy guess the DOLLARS wasnt his motive. No I aint the fan boy either. I tell that putz TK how much his stuff sucks all the time. Funny thing is most everything in my bag is AGD except for a Dynaflow and the revies its AAGDATT. All AGD All The Time. Go ahead ask me why, even tho I tell him his stuff sucks. There is more but I digress.

[teufelhunden]

The fact that you're standing behind them is weird though, I mean you must see what they have done?

It's more that I don't care.

Ya ok I get what you say. One thing is for sure is you dont know all the facts from the inside and there is much you miss from the outside.

So all the anti-SP'ers have the inside info? Because if not, the same thing applies to them...


I don't really care about the SP thing [if I play twice a year it's a lot], it's more that people think this is an isolated type of thing. Just like politicians, most companies aren't getting to the top and staying squeaky clean at the same time. So what makes SP different from other industries? Is it because you can avoid Smart Parts because paintball is a pastime and not a necessity? Are paintballers just naggy whiners [we know this to be true, so probably]?

I can even give you guys an example: Starbucks. Independent coffee shops hate Starbucks. A company called Coffee Equipment Company developed and built a machine called the Clover which makes a phenomenal cup of coffee [google it if you care how]. Independent coffee shops discovered the Clover and started making really good cups of coffee, and some of the press about it will have you believe there were lines out the door -- aka, it was great for business. This posed a threat to Starbucks. So, Starbucks bought the Coffee Equipment Company and no longer sells the Clover, and instead you will be seeing them at your neighborhood Starbucks soonish. Now, it's not a patent issue, but it's a similar type of thing: Starbucks used their size and available capital to take away a source of competition and in turn, is harming the little guys. Sound familiar? Do you still drink Starbucks [if you do/can/whatever]? Will you continue to with this knowledge?

[RogueFactor]

Now, it's not a patent issue, but it's a similar type of thing.Starbucks used their size and available capital to take away a source of competition and in turn, is harming the little guys. Sound familiar?

It isnt similar. At all. SP wasnt the biggest guy on the block using their size and capital to do anything of the sort. Rather, they used what many here on AO and in this industry consider to be shady practices for IP that doesnt rightfully(morally or ethically) belong to them. To date, when asked, Smart Parts will not answer if Tippmann or Kingman have signed a licensing agreement...wonder why? Youve already said you dont really care. But I wonder...as they seem to announce everywhere when any company does sign with them. If they havent, why hasnt SP gone after them? All good questions.

If IP litigation wasnt the most expensive form of litigation, those who otherwise couldnt fight would. Its usually a lack of funds, and not the lack of being right, that keep those from fighting IP wars.

Do you still drink Starbucks [if you do/can/whatever]? Will you continue to with this knowledge?

If Starbucks did what Smart Parts did, I would not drink their coffee. I would choose to drink Peet's, or any other viable alternative. If there wasnt an alternative, Id choose another beverage option.

[Beemer]

Hmmm, This thread is getting good dispite the OPs original post. I still expect an edit on it tho

[Beemer]

Doh double post. Here is another killer link.

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=161699&highlight=tanks

Nitrogen is our latest project causing the industry to stand up and take notice. In the world of paintball technology there are only three areas that can be improved on: 1) the paintballs, 2) the guns, and 3) the power source. As we all know, the guns have evolved tremendously while the paintballs and the power source have remained virtually unchanged. Nitrogen is our attempt to bring the power source into the twenty-first century. Nitrogen is advantageous because it is stored as compressed gas with no liquid. The disadvantage, and hence the safety issue, is that in order to store enough shots in a small tank the pressure can be as high as 2500 psi. Although these pressures are unfamiliar in the paintball industry, they are being safely used on a daily basis in other industries such as scuba (3000 psi venting into lungs), fire fighting (3000 psi plus high heat and flames), and welding (2500 psi plus explosive gases). Even closer to home are the nitrogen gas springs in hatch back cars that are under thousands of pounds of pressure.

Airgun Designs, Inc. has been a long-time supporter of the IPPA and applauds their efforts to establish safety standards for our industry. We feel that we are acting responsibly in not selling nitrogen systems until the safety questions have been answered. At the time of this writing, there are less than twelve nitrogen systems in existence. One of our systems has recently been tested by AUTHORIZED TESTING INC. a DOT proved testing facility and consultant to the IPPA on safety issues. Page seven of the report states "BASED UPON THE TEST DATA OBTAINED AND DOCUMENTED HEREIN, THE AIRGUN SYSTEM SUBMITTED FOR EVALUATION APPEARS TO BE WELL ENGINEERED AND HAS INHERENT PRESSURE CAPABILITIES WELL IN EXCESS OF THOSE ASSOCIATED WITH NORMAL USE."

[Beemer]

Doh triple post. Ya I did it so what. Look at the big Pic. Who cares about YOUR safty in the game. One thing I will say, it aint the other guy.

[kenndogg]

I can even give you guys an example: Starbucks. Independent coffee shops hate Starbucks. A company called Coffee Equipment Company developed and built a machine called the Clover which makes a phenomenal cup of coffee [google it if you care how]. Independent coffee shops discovered the Clover and started making really good cups of coffee, and some of the press about it will have you believe there were lines out the door -- aka, it was great for business. This posed a threat to Starbucks. So, Starbucks bought the Coffee Equipment Company and no longer sells the Clover, and instead you will be seeing them at your neighborhood Starbucks soonish. Now, it's not a patent issue, but it's a similar type of thing: Starbucks used their size and available capital to take away a source of competition and in turn, is harming the little guys. Sound familiar? Do you still drink Starbucks [if you do/can/whatever]? Will you continue to with this knowledge?

QTF

[ThePixelGuru]

I don't know why so many people assume that anti-SP folks don't care about this sort of thing in other industries. I'm a firm believer in voting with my wallet - therefore I avoid Starbucks, Wal-Mart and the like when possible. It's like some people think there's a problem with being an informed consumer...

Of course, it also helps that AGD makes better markers than SP, Starbucks' coffee pales in comparison to the local place down the street, and Wal-Mart sells cheap plastic crap.

[Ninjeff]

i love it when people "roll thier eyes" at another bunch of people trying to get a company to do the right thing.

Facinating.

No matter how trivial, the lack of paintballers standing up against Smart Parts has allowed them to reign supreme in teh industry now-a-days. Yes its business. But its business practiced in an unethical way. For whatever reason the attitude of "meh...whatever, its just business" has lead to a downturn in the honorable for-fathers of our industry. I dont give a hoot if SP guns shoot player seeking missles that are made of gold and fairy-dust. I would trade 10 Smart Parts for one AGD, a hundred Gardners for one Tom Kaye.
Where is the innovation in teh industry? Well, its lying half conscience of the floor gasping for air because its being choked by the patent-paper work of a "just doing business" attitude.

To date SP has this much of my money:

$0.00

[kenndogg]

i love it when people "roll thier eyes" at another bunch of people trying to get a company to do the right thing.

Facinating.

No matter how trivial, the lack of paintballers standing up against Smart Parts has allowed them to reign supreme in teh industry now-a-days. Yes its business. But its business practiced in an unethical way. For whatever reason the attitude of "meh...whatever, its just business" has lead to a downturn in the honorable for-fathers of our industry. I dont give a hoot if SP guns shoot player seeking missles that are made of gold and fairy-dust. I would trade 10 Smart Parts for one AGD, a hundred Gardners for one Tom Kaye.
Where is the innovation in teh industry? Well, its lying half conscience of the floor gasping for air because its being choked by the patent-paper work of a "just doing business" attitude.

To date SP has this much of my money:

$0.00

As long as it's legal I could care less. If SP wants to take over the industy using these tactics than good for them. People act like SP is the only company who stole/borrowed ideas. Sorry but that is nothing new in paintball. It's a copy cat industry, if something sells you can bet there a few companies lining up their versions.

[sepplainer]

Punk I think...Well if I understand you correctly you are saying that most of the folks on other sites (the Nation) who bash SP only do it because it sounds kwel. If that was your point and you took a long time to get there then I really agree with you.

However I work for a very large public company and I can tell you if I were to try and pull what SP did I would quickly find myself unemployeed and very likely in legal trouble with my employer for harming the stock holders investment and damaging the company's name. In the case of SP you have two fly by night storm door company type guys who run a scam that involves other peoples ideas. They then tell all the companys with less capital then them pay up sucker. While ignoring the companys who can fight and prove them wrong....Unless Tip/King have gone along with the idea that SP invented the electro paintball gun and agreed to pay without anyone finding out.
Ethics is like being gay. You are or you are not.

[punkncat]

Hmmm, This thread is getting good dispite the OPs original post. I still expect an edit on it tho

Edited for your reading pleasure sir.

I was not trying to flame anyone, and did not mean for it to be taken so. However upon reading back on it I could see where it came across that way.

[punkncat]

The whole point of my original post was not so much to try and stand up for SP. I am not trying to garner sympathy for them at all. The point is that personally I have had just about enough of this SP sux, because
a) my buddy says so
b) I read it on the intarwebs
c) cause (I heard) they made "insert name" go out of business
and many other variations on the theme.

I really wonder about this whole ethics thing eveyone is standing on. I mean, do y'all go our of your way to investigate EVERY product from every company to make sure they are planting trees and petting kittens, leaving the whole world with a fuzzy feeling? Or is it just paintball companies that you expected were going to always leave everything free and for the good of paintball? In spite of corporate involvement and reducing market share?
Is there ANY other business model that follows this ideal? Not being smart, I am serious. What other industry that brings in millions of dollars a year offers all their technology for free to anyone? No licensing, free to use and build upon any idea that anyone designed?
Who in todays world is nieve enough to develop a product and not protect themselves and their investment in R & D by using a patent or copyright?

I am glad that paintball WAS that way at some point, and that this gentleman's agreement stood for so long. It is amazing that it did last as long as it did. There was no question though that at some point, as more people became involved that it was in inevitable result.

So anyway, now that I have driven around the mountain.....we can all all we want. There is a following of e-cool anti SP fanbois who love to jump on board. As I have said and many people smarter than myself have said, all the bashing in the world certainly hasn't changed anything. They are still a mogul and apparently in it for.... well in it to squeeze out every last drop they can.....

[devildog]

I've posted it before, here it is again. I actually like smart parts.