ULE Trigger, Can You Shoot It Right?

[BTAutoMag]

lol, id be willing to give it a shot

[Lethargic]

First of all, im confused on what chuffing means. Is the gun just short stroking? or is there something else going on?

Second, i think AGD is going about this the wrong way. Granted, it is nice that he shows us here on AO all the new upgrades, guns etc, BUT there is a problem with this. By catering to a well - informed and (generally) more intelligent crowd, I don't think that Tom is going to get the viewpoint of the average idiot.

I say that this needs to be slowed down for a while. Even though most AOers will probably be fine with learning the new trigger, it could still pan out pretty badly. All it takes is a few random idiots (you know, the ones with badly installed level 10s and ANS parts all over their guns) to go crop the crap out of a few hoppers of balls to bring the "mags chop paint" idea back to teh foreground.

Besides, i still have to save up for an x-valve, new rail, and body for my RT

[Fritzy]

Tom's gun...

I believe the point of Tom's post is that the latest version, created to limit reactivity and be tourney legal, WILL NOT shoot the same as the gun everyone has tried out at the different meet events. People were not short stroking that one because it still had sufficient reactivity.

[TheBigRaguPB4L]

I think that the vast majority here didn't have chopping problems pre-LX. I rarely chopped with my retro. I don't think we realize how many people used mags that don't come here. This is why the mags had the blender reputations. They never took the time to shoot the mag right, and therefore, didn't have good experiences with their mags. Then spread the word on, how much they "sucked".

Another consideration is that the average mag owner(Non AO'er) wouldn't head the warning of which valves to properly install it on. They'd throw it on a classic valve just hearing that it reduces the trigger pull. Once that gun is all screwed up, forget about it.

I think this needs to get held up. Don't send something out that's going to set you back again. It's just not worth it.

[Psycho attack monkey]

i think i would prefer an intelliframe

[lamingo]

people took the time to set up the lvl 10 so it didn't chop. its the same thing. if they didn't learn how to set it up right it would still chop. same with the new tigger so its the same concept people took the time with lvl 10 and everything worked out. Lvl 10 could have backfired but AGD tried it. i think that it should be released and then debate if its continue or not based on feedback. you'll never acomplish anything if you don't try.

[Jerhew]

Originally posted by lamingo
people took the time to set up the lvl 10 so it didn't chop. its the same thing. if they didn't learn how to set it up right it would still chop. same with the new tigger so its the same concept people took the time with lvl 10 and everything worked out. Lvl 10 could have backfired but AGD tried it. i think that it should be released and then debate if its continue or not based on feedback. you'll never acomplish anything if you don't try.

agreed.
if you send it out with detailed instructions on what and what not to do...how to set it up with enough reactivity to avoid short stroking, how to set it up without reactivity for tournament use(with a warning about the possibility of short stroking when set up this way)

the level 10 was sort of a tricky thing to set up for some people...and yes there were problems...but overall i think everyone sees LX as a huge sucess
even a warpfeed takes some doing to make sure it's running properly...i never hear warp users complaining...
because if they don't like it, they take it off...
and i'm assuming you can do the same with the new trigger...

that's the difference right there...
when the old mags were considered blenders, that's just how they were stock...
with the ule trigger, it's an upgrade, if people don't like it they can always get rid of it...
AND
it's an upgrade to a higher end gun in the first place...
for the most part, you'll have more experienced users using this...
not just some noob with a classic(no offense to classic users)

[Marek]

Why are ppl comparing this to Lvl 10? When the upgrade came out, and the pics and videos and Mr. Kaye with the tongue in the breech were shown to non-mag users, jaws dropped. The whole point for lvl. 10 was to stop chopping in a mag and get away from this rep of mag=blender. Yes you have to tweak it, but its fool proof. (well, for the most part)

The ULE trigger, at its present form may cause more bad than good. To me, this sounds like a small group of ppl on AO are die hard about this, but that doesnt make up the general community of paintball. Mr. Kaye mentioned that about some of the other upgrades and he got burned from that. If this is released, instructions or not, beta testing or not, and problems arise, then AGD will start having problems with their rep. Of course, the die hard mag ppl will stick up for the rep, but the damage will be done.

You dont short stroke or chop or break or whatever on your classic z gripped mag? Thats great, but not everyone is on the same boat. And like I mentioned earlier, if this was an upgrade for a cocker, ppl would have the patience for it. This is not the case for the mag.

[RetroEclipseMan]

After reading all these posts my new opinion would have to be to send it to beta. There's enough knowlegable people here on AO that would be willing to do it to give you the feedback you need. I know that if I had the opportunity to buy one for beta testing I would, even if that means buying an x-valve, that's how much I want this upgrade to come out as long as it's going to be the right time for it.

[dcmander]

Re: Tom's gun...

If this is true, I retract my past statement. Can anyone confirm this to be true?

Originally posted by Fritzy
I believe the point of Tom's post is that the latest version, created to limit reactivity and be tourney legal, WILL NOT shoot the same as the gun everyone has tried out at the different meet events. People were not short stroking that one because it still had sufficient reactivity.

Originally posted by dcmander
I've been reading this thread and I think it is my turn for an opinion.

Every single post I have read by people who have actually shot Tom's setup at the meets has said it was easy, inredible, and no broken paint or shortstrokes.

This is an indication to me that the product is ready!! I would love this product and I could learn it no sweat if the other AOers are doing it. I still think it should be a kit though. That way for rec you can have a short trigger and high sensativity, but if you play a tournament you can quickly do whatever and make it less reactive and tourny legal. I think this is obviously the best solution and I think most people have agreed and voted for this option.

Make it a kit, include with Xvalve!

[Mutilus]

Well nothing against anyone here but I don't get the issue. I used the ULE trigger at Twin Towers and I rocked and rolled with it and didn't break anything. Does the intelligrip work the same way? I doubt it. I hope Tom doesn't listen to any of you and makes the grip anyway, because I would buy one and use it regularly. I have been looking for a mechanical that can fire as fast as my Angel for a long time now and I found it in Tom's marker, I always loved the low profile of the Mag and I only broke away from the Mag because there wasn't as much that you could upgrade on them as many of their peers. Either way as an Airsmith and with 14 years of paintball under my belt I think Tom's trigger frame is awesome and will work great on the Mag I am putting together. I just got the ULE body and Xvalve for my old school Mag and I am just waiting for the release of the ULE frame to make it complete and play tourney ball with only my Mag. in a phrase "It Rocked"

[dcmander]

Originally posted by Mutilus
Well nothing against anyone here but I don't get the issue. I used the ULE trigger at Twin Towers and I rocked and rolled with it and didn't break anything. Does the intelligrip work the same way? I doubt it. I hope Tom doesn't listen to any of you and makes the grip anyway, because I would buy one and use it regularly. I have been looking for a mechanical that can fire as fast as my Angel for a long time now and I found it in Tom's marker, I always loved the low profile of the Mag and I only broke away from the Mag because there wasn't as much that you could upgrade on them as many of their peers. Either way as an Airsmith and with 14 years of paintball under my belt I think Tom's trigger frame is awesome and will work great on the Mag I am putting together. I just got the ULE body and Xvalve for my old school Mag and I am just waiting for the release of the ULE frame to make it complete and play tourney ball with only my Mag. in a phrase "It Rocked"

That was Fritzy's point. Tom's mag you used may have been tournament ILLEGAL, because of the reactivity. THAT is the issue. To be tournament LEGAL, the reactivity is going to have to be turned down, which will make the trigger not return as quickly. So this proposes the opportunity of one to shortstroke. This is the issue we are discussing. Understand? Now debate! ..With the rest of us.

[logamus]

Originally posted by dcmander
I've been reading this thread and I think it is my turn for an opinion.

Every single post I have read by people who have actually shot Tom's setup at the meets has said it was easy, inredible, and no broken paint or shortstrokes.

exactly my thoughts. why not make this like the roller trigger and have some only sold via airgun.com. put a notice on the order page that this trigger if not learned and used properly can cause "chopping" and include a typed version with the trigger. as long as the ult remains an aftermarket "hotrod" item i dont think it would have a negative effect on the companys image. lets be honest, most people think that base model mags are blenders and will always think that so someone not knowing how to shoot this trigger wont change their minds anyway. but, there is the chance that if a long time mag hater sees someone who knows how to use the trigger ripping away like nobodys business, that might mean more to the mag hater.

as far as learning the trigger, most mag users had to learn the mag trigger to begin with. is that not part of the reasoning behind the lvl10? people that were not familiar with the mag trigger chop alot of paint. most of us will agree that once you know how to shoot your mag, chopping is not much of an issue but the lvl10 erased any issue. same with the ult, once you learn it, short stroking wont be much of an issue either. my suggestion is to just keep this labeled as a high performance aftermarket add on that can be quirky if you dont learn how to use it.

(sorry for the length)

[�.C.]

if there is someway you can make it adjustable between illegal and non illegal I'd bet a lot more would shoot for this. Don't give up now, think of all that time and effort going to waste!

[magman007]

Listen people, forget beta testing. You all want beta testing, because you all feel it will give you a chance to get this trigger faster. Now Listen to me here. For years the mag trigger was a reason to get a mag, its a great freekin trigger, and i know you al like the trigger you have now, or else you wouldnt have bought a mag, you would have gone on searching for the marker that had the trigger you want.


Now. The trigger may be "ready" in your eyes, but it really isnt. You guys are being selfish, and only thinking of your selves, and what you want, well let me give you all a wake up, you are not the whole paintball crowd. You need to think in terms Of the company whose board you are supporting, and whom has the warrenty on your mag.


Mags are finally becomming popular once more, slowly. Now if we stop the popularity right now, with something that makes mags break balls once more, and you want this on the market now now now... then you are thinking selfishly. Stop thinking about your selves for once.


Now, how would you feel, If agd released this product, and lost sales? not just on classics or rt's, but on x-mags as well. You can say all you want that x mags dont have this problem, because they are electro's etc, it aint gunna do a damn thing the the pb world as a whole, people will go right back to thinking mags break balls, and that is that. What does this translate into? Lost sales! now keep with me here... Lost sales means not making money, not making money means company financial troubles, financial troubles can lead to Bankrupcy, which means that all of your mags, and your warrenty's and great customer service, go down the crapper.


Do you under stand this?

Now back to tourny rules etc. Listen, most rules that the NPPL enforce, the PSP and the Millenium series enforce, will soon become the norm, and fields will start to enforce these rules as well, many of them already do. Now, there is no reason for agd to release a highly reactive trigger, and a non reactive trigger, one being illegal. Its like releasing a marker in one mode that has FA, and another mode that doesnt.(just a comparison, not saying that one can "sweet spot" easier than the other etc) THe kit should be released to comply with all rules and saftey standards, and nothing more. It also will not sell well if it is not "tourny ready" or "tourny level" "tourny capable etc." we all know these are high selling points on many products. Also, many people will buy this trigger kit, newbs who dont know a thing about mags, will buy them by the bucket full, once this becomes available, why? because mags are gaining popularity, because they have an ultralight trigger, pretty bodies ETC.

Now i ask you this, how many of you really say the bad points of your marker, when you are trying to sell the idea to another person? I doubt more than 5 of you do. The word will travel that mags have a nice super light trigger available, and with a really cool LX kit etc. This is the low/mid end marker dream, and agd will play a big part into it, and these mags, with these short strokeable triggers will go out to tons of people, and they will short stroke it and chuff a lot. THis again, puts up the bad rep for mags.

Now your all saying, oh i tried it out etc, and had no problems, well apparently you chuffed the first ball, because tom said that every one who has picked up this marker, has chuffed the first ball, now maybe not every one, but apparently the vast majority of you have.

Another thing is you need is Patience PEOPLE! can i say Superbolt enough times? let me try Superbolt Superbolt Superbolt Superbolt Superbolt Superbolt Superbolt Superbolt Superbolt Superbolt Superbolt Superbolt Superbolt Superbolt Superbolt Superbolt nope i dont think that i can. The superbolt was a big failure for agd, and you all know this. it was suipposed ti function etc, but it didnt. It broke, and broke more paint, because it cycled faster than the old heavy ss bolt, increasing the bolt speed, and breaking balls more. Listen people, tom cannot release this product to impatient people, just because they are impatient. This product needs to be Full proof before it hits any sort of market, beta or not.

How would you like the agd slogan to be.... We rush our products because whiney people on ao tell us to, and it isnt as quality as we hoped, and once a ball is chuffed, it doesnt shoot straight...


Ill tell you, i like Quality Always Shoots Straight much more than that..... So think about it all of you...