My X-Mag Nightmare

[Downfall]

Ok so if the fix is a new HES, why doesn't AGD just offer to replace it for free? Why would dirty have to buy the defective part? I manage a QA department, a Customer service department and a technology department, believe me I understand not every gun leaving the assembly line will work 100% of the time, but Tom if there is an issue like this that is hurting more than one customer you can't sit and wait for a gun to just show up with the problem so you can fix it. You have to actively pursue it, find some one that has the problem (e.g. DirtyBunny) offer free shipping to get the gun in your hands and work on a fix. after the problem is fixed adjust your QA test plans to ensure the failure is checked prior to shipment. If the defect is from factory then offer the fix to your other customers. I know you can't ever make everyone happy, we get hundreds of emails every day, but you have to try to make as many people as possible happy. Just my $0.02

[cphilip]

Well for one thing the fix may not be a new HES. But if it was then of course AGD would fix it for free. But....In fact we not certain what the fix is except reflashing to a earlier program. 2.4 maybe even. As Tom stated he has not recieved one back doing this so he can see for certain what the fix is. He needs someone willing to do it. And since its only been a week or two and only a percentage of them doing it there just has not been one come in to diagnose.

A couple of comments from some of the people that have observed this while at SE AO. Several markers did this "full auto" when reflashed to 3.2 while dry fireing listening to the electronic but refused to do it when air was applied!

Now the question I have is are they all doing that? Or are some doing right when aired up and some not? Again we talking about a handfull of Markers right now so we not certain the percentage would be statisticaly significant even if we got some to reply to that. And even though I know its odd to say there would be a difference aired up or not that did occur. For some odd reason I cannot explain they did not go full auto when they had air and were charged and ready to go. Try it and lets get some reports on that.

[Bad_Knees]

I agree with Downfall, maybe even take some xmags off the production line to do cycle testing to check for any flaws or life expectancy of the product. Maybe even ask some customers at random on how their product is doing and if they are happy? Now that makes it $.04

BK

[cledford]

Originally posted by cphilip

A couple of comments from some of the people that have observed this while at SE AO. Several markers did this "full auto" when reflashed to 3.2 while dry fireing listening to the electronic but refused to do it when air was applied!

Mine (Emag) does it without air (even at a SHBF of 100)- but settles down a lot with air. It will still doubles easily (I can do it everytime when trying)in E-mode when set at 20ms. I was susposed to take it over to Pevs over the weekend to let Rob flash it with Miscue's code to see if it resolves the issue therefore isolating the problem as firmware. I din't make it over (too much turky and Rainbow 6 action with the brother-in-law) but will shoot by some time this week. I can send the gun with 3.2 to the factory if it'll help. I'm wondering if DBs was full-auto with paint and air - or just with the battery on.

-Calvin

[cphilip]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bad_Knees
I agree with Downfall, maybe even take some xmags off the production line to do cycle testing to check for any flaws or life expectancy of the product.

Remember there are many X Mags here and no reports of this outside a few noisy boards replaced in both the Emags and X mags and a few HES's and ACE boards. Very small percentage so far that we can tell. And remember that AO is a customer feed back place. The only difference in the Emag and the X was the addition of the ACE board. And just now this software. Too few of them out there and only for a week or two. And those all prior to this batch had 2.4 software. Its not an X mag problem that we know of. They been around a while. The only change recently is this software. Somehow it has to be determined if its still one of the earlier problems or is it the software. And with so few out and only a few weeks its too early to tell.

Maybe even ask some customers at random on how their product is doing and if they are happy?

I believe that is whats being done now? Right here on AO? Is it not? I mean we only just now seeing X Mags delivered with this new software. This last batch is it. So feedback is important but its just this last batch that we can get some of this new issue on. Its not a pre-existing issue that we know of outside the few odd boards from before. But AO is a customer feedback method. It seems its happening now to me.

[Ityl]

So DB's gun was put together at the factory and tested. It worked fine. Then it was sent to cphillip, he opened it up, turned the gun on, said 3.2. Then the gun was sent to DB and it didn't work correctly. Sounds to me like the gun was tested at a different software level, was reflashed to 3.2 and not tested again.

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out, only a mechanical engineer in training

[pito189]

When mine was flashed to 3.2 it did full auto with no air. Tato flashed it back to 2.4 for me right then.

I can send my gun in to be used as a dummy if need be. Someone just pm me the address where it needs to go, and I will send it off.

[cphilip]

Originally posted by cledford
I'm wondering if DBs was full-auto with paint and air - or just with the battery on.

-Calvin

Me too. I would like to know how often this is observed. Not that I can understand it but it does seem to be reported.

[Muzikman]

bah, who cares if it doesn't shoot right....it looks damn sexy and that's all that counts...right?

[cphilip]

Originally posted by Ityl
So DB's gun was put together at the factory and tested. It worked fine. Then it was sent to cphillip, he opened it up, turned the gun on, said 3.2. Then the gun was sent to DB and it didn't work correctly. Sounds to me like the gun was tested at a different software level, was reflashed to 3.2 and not tested again.

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out, only a mechanical engineer in training

Nope....it was tested with 3.2 at AGD. It CAME with 3.2. This was the first batch to do so. Never had anything else on it. However the testing does not involve trying to get it to sweet spot in electronic mode. That would not be a part of the test as it was not anticipated. The test markers used to develope 3.2 did not exibit this issue. So it was not untill field installs of this software that it was noticed. And again, not on all markers.

[Downfall]

Ok I hope people don't feel that I'm attacking AGD or anything like that. I've been doing the QA and CS thing for a long time, I'm just giving suggestions on how to handle the issue at hand. That being said, cphilip I don't know what the documentation practices are at AGD, but there has to be a way to narrow down the common factor that is causing the problem in some of the guns. perhaps a change in hardware suppliers or a different version of the software mistakenly named 3.2 and again now that you have identified some one with a problem gun, get it in your hands to work on the fix, contact other customers from the last batch of guns and see what the failure percentage is. That's another $0.02 from me so that adds up to $0.06.

[cphilip]

Originally posted by Downfall
Ok I hope people don't feel that I'm attacking AGD or anything like that. I've been doing the QA and CS thing for a long time, I'm just giving suggestions on how to handle the issue at hand. That being said, cphilip I don't know what the documentation practices are at AGD, but there has to be a way to narrow down the common factor that is causing the problem in some of the guns. perhaps a change in hardware suppliers or a different version of the software mistakenly named 3.2 and again now that you have identified some one with a problem gun, get it in your hands to work on the fix, contact other customers from the last batch of guns and see what the failure percentage is. That's another $0.02 from me so that adds up to $0.06.

Oh no! I certainly didn't take your tone as an attack. I thought it was somewhat supportive and understanding in fact.

And indeed now that we see one and a few more reports then Tom would, I am sure, like to see that Marker. But I am not certain the customer wants to do that. But again this is brand new issue. Its not an X mag issue. Its a "this last batch that shipped with new software" issue as best we might can tell. However that has to be isolated from perhaps a bad board or something. Its too early to tell. Some of those last batch still have not gotten into the hands of the owner yet. Nor been aired up and played with.

In many cases AGD has no idea who the customer is until (or even if) they register the marker with AGD. They know who the Dealers are. And if they sold one direct they know that customer. But ultimately they have to wait for that customer to contact them to know there is a problem and who that person even is most of the time,

[Bad_Knees]

Thanks for the response CPhil!

Well yes using AO as the feedback arena is cool although sometimes you would rather use a control group because you don't get the proper feedback through some of the descriptions I have read here...it sometimes takes a couple of pages to figure out what the true problem is in some of the threads. But you are right it seems to be this batch with the software...I say bring on the "Q"!

Now up to $.06, at this rate I will need 65,000 posts to afford an Xmag...not like you really wanted to know that

BK

[cphilip]

Re: Thanks for the response CPhil!

Originally posted by Bad_Knees
Well yes using AO as the feedback arena is cool although sometimes you would rather use a control group because you don't get the proper feedback through some of the descriptions I have read here...it sometimes takes a couple of pages to figure out what the true problem is in some of the threads. But you are right it seems to be this batch with the software...I say bring on the "Q"!

Now up to $.06, at this rate I will need 65,000 posts to afford an Xmag...not like you really wanted to know that

BK

LOL.... well the problem with using AO as a feed back (although thats its primary purpose) is its so public. One would rather attempt a private intervention first if you could. But then again its here and then again its sometimes good to do these things in the open. It has its ups and downs I guess.

Good luck on your spare change fund!

[TheClapp15]

That Mag better work Lord, I don't need a backplayer hand throwing paint.