My X-Mag Nightmare

[DiRTyBuNNy]

Yes...i did have to send another marker back because of a customer service issue...the company called me to ask how I liked the marker and I told them I didn't and told them the problem..they overnighted me a new one and provided me a box postage paid for me to send my "bad" marker back to them in. I don't expect that from everyone...that was above and beyond.

But you cannot say that I never attempted to tell anyone at AGD. Look on the forums...the day I got the gun I had already posted up about the problem and it has been admitted that people knew the problem as early as the the AO-SE meet. That's over 8 days ago without a comment from anyone concrete about a resolution to the problem. I shouldn't have to wait 8 days for anyone to comment about anything...that's what I meant about horrible customer service.

If the problem had been discovered over a week ago why hasn't someone else who had the problem call AGD already to warn them of the issue? So someone knew about the problem and AGD is just finding out about the problem a week later? That's just not acceptable...you can fault me all you want but I'm faulting AGD for not doing enough testing with flashing new boards for a software upgrade.

So you're asking me to send my gun back to the manufacturer to fix a problem that they didn't notice while putting 1400 shots on my gun when all you do to get it go full auto is pull and hold the trigger in e-mode? You have to be kidding me...

Right now I feel like telling all the people that tell me I don't have a right to whine...you pony up $1300 and I will sell you my "nightmare" and you can do whatever you want with it...I don't care...and I'll even float you shipping...don't want to do that? shut up and sit down then..

[adam shannon]

you back already, thought you were leaving?

[Blazingace]

First of all, all you haters can go jump off a cliff. I've never once had a problem with an AGD product that somebody couldn't fix. I own a large ARESNAL of guns. Look at my sig. But when it comes down to it, what do I shoot? A mag. There's a reason for that.

Honestly DB, this is an issue that could be taken care of in a timely fashion, minus the whining. Whether you spent $1300 on the gun or not, AGD has come forward and offered to take care of the gun. What more do you want? Nothing's perfect, no matter how much money you spend on the damned gun. Guess what, I just picked up my new Black/Red Xmag with 3.2 and I don't have an issue. With the software only being out a week and a half, there's only a select few guns that are actually running 3.2. From the SC AO threads, we see that out of 70 some odd people that played, 2- count them 2- people had to go back to 2.4 b/c of bounce issues. I think that's a successful test if you ask me.

And to Tron- You might want to be a little more respectful to Tunaman. Tunaman has always been willing to help an AGD customer with a product problem, usually free of charge and at the cost of his own relaxation/playing time. Tuna's got more tech/kindness in his fingernail clippings than SOME people on AO do.

[Dayspring]

Hey DB- guess what. It wasn't 8 days.

You got your mag on what tuesday? MAYBE wednesday. I don't count 8 days. We had 2 guns with bounce/full auto issues at SC AO. I wouldn't count that as an issue that AGD's been faulty in trying to find.

The issue rears its head from gun to gun. I have said previously- my Emag doesn't bounce AT ALL. My Xmag will, if forced to. So don't get all nasty and whiney b/c your gun does. It's a FEW guns, out of ALL the ones they flashed.

Now don't get all nasty about how long it took for Tom to reply. He, as well as the rest of the AGD staff, have every right to enjoy their Thanksgiving holiday. The fact that you wanted satisfaction knowing full well that it was a holiday weekend is absolutely rediculous, as well as absurd and down right RUDE.

Buck up, send the gun back and get it worked on. Quit the whining, and move on.

[DiRTyBuNNy]

Originally posted by Dayspring
Hey DB- guess what. It wasn't 8 days.

You got your mag on what tuesday? MAYBE wednesday. I don't count 8 days. We had 2 guns with bounce/full auto issues at SC AO. I wouldn't count that as an issue that AGD's been faulty in trying to find.

The issue rears its head from gun to gun. I have said previously- my Emag doesn't bounce AT ALL. My Xmag will, if forced to. So don't get all nasty and whiney b/c your gun does. It's a FEW guns, out of ALL the ones they flashed.

Now don't get all nasty about how long it took for Tom to reply. He, as well as the rest of the AGD staff, have every right to enjoy their Thanksgiving holiday. The fact that you wanted satisfaction knowing full well that it was a holiday weekend is absolutely rediculous, as well as absurd and down right RUDE.

Buck up, send the gun back and get it worked on. Quit the whining, and move on.

So you're saying that the weekend before my gun was shipped the problem was discovered and no one thought to check my gun which was flashed with the new 3.2 software?! I'm not going to accept that as an excuse..sorry..that doesn't work for me...

and as for it being just a few guns...I've seen more than two people on AO who said they are having the same problem as me..and two is too many...these problems should be leaving the factory..end of story period exclamation point...if they are then there is something wrong that needs to be fixed..

and for all I know it was someone at AO-SE who put more than a few hundred of those 1400 shots on my marker. I got enough people talking about touching my marker...no one thought to turn it on and pull the trigger...you can't take accountability for some things and walk away from others...I'm not happy with how things went down...and all I've gotten is excuses and passing the buck...I shouldn't have to post a thread like this to get something done...I shouldn't have to take the time out of my day to take care of something that isn't my fault...do you want to pay for my time having to deal with all of this...like i said before...cough up $1300 for mine and you can comment all you want...until then I'd just say shut it...

and it's not like AGD even has someone here on the west coast who could care less about mags in the first place..

[Tron]

Originally posted by Blazingace
And to Tron- You might want to be a little more respectful to Tunaman. Tunaman has always been willing to help an AGD customer with a product problem, usually free of charge and at the cost of his own relaxation/playing time. Tuna's got more tech/kindness in his fingernail clippings than SOME people on AO do.

I give what I get.

-Tron

[pito189]

Originally posted by DiRTyBuNNy
I'm not happy with how things went down...and all I've gotten is excuses and passing the buck...I shouldn't have to post a thread like this to get something done...I shouldn't have to take the time out of my day to take care of something that isn't my fault...do you want to pay for my time having to deal with all of this...like i said before...cough up $1300 for mine and you can comment all you want...until then I'd just say shut it...

Cry me a river. Everyone else payed $1300 bucks just like you did. Your not special in that matter. Heaven forbid you lift a finger, and do some work, after AGD and Tom himself have done nothing, but jump through hoops to try to please you. Why don't you go over to the Matrix, Angel, or Intimidator forums, and try to get the president of the company handle your marker, and try to make it fit exactly what you had it mind when you ordered. PUHHHLEASE. Grow up and get a clue.

[Tron]

Originally posted by pito189


Cry me a river. Everyone else payed $1300 bucks just like you did. Your not special in that matter. Heaven forbid you lift a finger, and do some work, after AGD and Tom himself have done nothing, but jump through hoops to try to please you. Why don't you go over to the Matrix, Angel, or Intimidator forums, and try to get the president of the company handle your marker, and try to make it fit exactly what you had it mind when you ordered. PUHHHLEASE. Grow up and get a clue.

I called blast and bob answered my question...

What is everyone missing here he paid $1,300, had 1,400 shots on it and no one noticed his gun going full auto? This thing is assembled, oiled and chrono'd from the factory and again no one notices? And this is the second Xmag he has had problems with. I wouldn't be a happy camper and neither would anyone I know. I fully understand all the frustration.

-Tron

[lamby]

Hey, I agree with DB. He has a right to be upset, and feel cheated.

I just got done reading a TON of posts and I want to comment on a few:

first, don't compare an xmag to car. They are totaly different animals. If you want too compare them for a reference, You can return a car that does not work the day you bought it (at least in Wisconsin). You have 3 days after purchase to return a new car for full refund if you are not happy with it. (AGD offered this to DB also)

second, Don't say "just give AGD some time" R&D for the new software was flawed.. Plain and simple. this software was not a "beta" release, and as such should have been fixed. It is not like a OS that has millions of lines of code. It is a simple basic program that does nothing more than fire a fet when a trigger pulse is detected. 3.2 also does a sample hold that works as a shot buffer and "debounce" timer. This is not a complex program to write.

There are other people that have addressed problems in this thread that have never had the issue resolved. I am still waiting for a "repair/bandaid" to fix the "manual mode shootup as opposed to the GOD FORSAKEN RT effect" that almost had my whole team DQed in Chicago.. (go ahead and blame the chrono ref, AGD can't do any wrong )

My issue is over 6 months old and not fixed. I bought another marker, still have the E-Mag (which I can use in locals because they know that you can chrono it in E-mode so I pulled the trigger rod out again) and the IR3 is for national tourneys until I buy a new viking or timmy.

I would NEVER buy another AGD product because of the lack of support I received on what I consider a mis-represented marker. my marker can not be used in manual mode during a tourney (the RT effect would ban my marker as my reactivity is too high )

DB. return the marker and buy one that does what it claims. I like the Texas Storm Timmys with the WAS board, and the Immortal Vikings. Both would be cheaper than the X (but that is my recommendation and it is up to you)

Those of you flaming, take your mechanical markers and go play in the woods. NO PROBLEMS!!! AGD has some tourney isssues that they need to address. Let the people with the e markers that dont work get thier issues fixed.

To add to the rant, AGD needs to fix its supplier problems too.

[gibby]

First of all, I am a big fan of AGD products...hence why I have 2 ULE Emags and a Warped RT Mini...and a slew of other AGD guns I've had in the past.

But I'm going to have to side with DB this time...sure, it sounds kind of whiney...but I do believe he has a reason to be. A few months back, I was contemplating on purchasing an Xmag myself. But when I thought about it, the time and money spent waiting for one just wasn't worth it. That's why I decided to build myself a ULE Emag instead.

I am quite happy with it. However, if put in the same shoes as DB and the history of what he went through, it's quite frustrating to finally get it and not be completely satisfied with it...twice.

The ano problem is an AGD issue because they put their trust in a company that will do the job for them, it's part of the process of building it. DB wasn't happy and AGD was good in making sure he was happy with the ano job. Again, more time was spent waiting for it to be done right...and from what I understand, DB even had to settle on a single color rather than the fade he originally wanted. So in some ways, DB's patience and his willing to find middle ground was his way of playing ball with AGD and letting "issues" go.

Now we have the 3.2 issue. Again, after going through the AGD quality assurance and cphilip, and a few others who had the chance to mess around with it, and after 1400 shots, one would think it would have been caught. But for the second time, DB gets his long awaited Xmag and wasn't satisfied by the flaws. Sure, he can be a little bit more patient...but really, after over a year waiting...isn't that patience enough?

A person's time is worth more than money. You cannot take that out of the total value of what was invested waiting and hoping for his Xmag. For those of you who have 3.2 and don't have problems...that's great! But you cannot dismiss someone's problem just cause "it works" for you. That's just being blind to the problem.

Am I a fanboy of AGD products...I sure am. But I would also like to know that if I'm going to put my time and effort trying to "spread the good news" about AGD products, I want to make sure that I'm not doing it out of blind faith.

My loyalty to AGD products isn't a religion or a cult I follow. It's knowing the products and the person behind them. But this sort of thing dampens the feeling.

Do I feel sorry for DB? No...but I do understand.

[luke]

This thread reminds me of when my buddy E-SFL got his SFL E-Mag.

The gun would not shoot paint, it would however chop probably 85% of the balls put threw it. He pretty much had the same attitude (at first) you did DirtyBunny. Pissed off because he dropped $1200 on a gun he couldn't use, and didn't want to send it to AGD to have it looked at. This was also his very first Mag which compounded the problem, from his perspective anyway. Finally he came around sent it to Tom, you know what happened? We all got Level 10.

Originally posted by DiRTyBuNNy


you can fault me all you want but I'm faulting AGD for not doing enough testing with flashing new boards for a software upgrade.

So you're asking me to send my gun back to the manufacturer to fix a problem that they didn't notice while putting 1400 shots on my gun when all you do to get it go full auto is pull and hold the trigger in e-mode? You have to be kidding me...

You have EVERY RIGHT to be pissed off, upset, and screaming bloody murder at everyone. You have a right to voice your opinions publicly, if all other avenues have been exhausted, (which you said you did). BUT, Tom can't fix the problem over the Internet.

Don't take this wrong, it's not my intention to belittle you or your situation, but, do you really want a working gun or do you just want to grip about it?

I'm sure if you want out from under the problem someone will take it off your hands. Tuna has already said he could fix it in 10 minutes.

Don't take this post as an attack on you because it isn't intended to be. You shouldn't have to apologize to anyone for your situation, you are not in the wrong here. All I'm saying is, Tom will make this right if given a chance.

[cphilip]

Originally posted by gibby
First of all, I am a big fan of AGD products...hence why I have 2 ULE Emags and a Warped RT Mini...and a slew of other AGD guns I've had in the past.

But I'm going to have to side with DB this time...sure, it sounds kind of whiney...but I do believe he has a reason to be. A few months back, I was contemplating on purchasing an Xmag myself. But when I thought about it, the time and money spent waiting for one just wasn't worth it. That's why I decided to build myself a ULE Emag instead.

I am quite happy with it. However, if put in the same shoes as DB and the history of what he went through, it's quite frustrating to finally get it and not be completely satisfied with it...twice.

The ano problem is an AGD issue because they put their trust in a company that will do the job for them, it's part of the process of building it. DB wasn't happy and AGD was good in making sure he was happy with the ano job. Again, more time was spent waiting for it to be done right...and from what I understand, DB even had to settle on a single color rather than the fade he originally wanted. So in some ways, DB's patience and his willing to find middle ground was his way of playing ball with AGD and letting "issues" go.

Now we have the 3.2 issue. Again, after going through the AGD quality assurance and cphilip, and a few others who had the chance to mess around with it, and after 1400 shots, one would think it would have been caught. But for the second time, DB gets his long awaited Xmag and wasn't satisfied by the flaws. Sure, he can be a little bit more patient...but really, after over a year waiting...isn't that patience enough?

A person's time is worth more than money. You cannot take that out of the total value of what was invested waiting and hoping for his Xmag. For those of you who have 3.2 and don't have problems...that's great! But you cannot dismiss someone's problem just cause "it works" for you. That's just being blind to the problem.

Am I a fanboy of AGD products...I sure am. But I would also like to know that if I'm going to put my time and effort trying to "spread the good news" about AGD products, I want to make sure that I'm not doing it out of blind faith.

My loyalty to AGD products isn't a religion or a cult I follow. It's knowing the products and the person behind them. But this sort of thing dampens the feeling.

Do I feel sorry for DB? No...but I do understand.

Well there are several minor errors there but I am on Bunny side too. But if he won't LET me help him then I cannot much do anything can I?

First error is I did not test anything at SE AO nor did anyone else. We had no way to do so. Its done at AGD. We opened the package (as I told him I would) to make sure it was the correct color, had the right barrel and to confirm it had 3.2 on it like he wanted. If someone pulled the trigger on it I am not aware but it would be less than a dozen times. There was only three of us that had it in our hands for about three minutes. I was not aware of a runnaway issue with these so had no idea to even look for it. I then reboxed it immediately and locked it in the safe in my room. It was never taken out or handled again the entire weekend. Even though Bunny sort of wanted it to be shown around I just felt too uncomfortable about something maybe happening. And I knew I would be too preoccupied running the event to keep a close eye on it. So I did not allow anyone else to see it after its arrival Friday evening. I shipped it the following monday without doing anything more than finishing packaging it in an over box. I was worried it would get damaged at SE AO so it was kept under lock and key but.....And you can ask anyone there if this is not the case. I will repeat....ALL EMAGS AND X MAGS COME WITH SHOTS ON THE COUNTER. From set up. They do not rezero them after they set them up. I have never seen one with less than 500 shots on it out of the box. I do not know why but each pull they accidently or on purpose put on it will count. And its on there. Always is the case.


Second error. He did not recieve any marker twice. He, at my urging rejected the first one while it was still at AGD. While I was trying to put together a description of what he wanted changed he himself called Jon and changed to a single color. I then reduced his price because he chose to do that. He was not forced to go to another color. Or to give up the fade. he may have felt that way but I nor AGD asked him to. We fully were planning on changing the fade area for him. He felt his chances were better to get what he wanted with a single color. I did not try and change his mind after that because he is the customer. After all its his choice.

Third one is sort of an error if you really want to be factual and presice. I ordered two X mags without ANY buyers. To get on the list. After a while several people wanted to be on my call list. Bunny was the second one. he touched base from time to time to let me know he was still interested. Thats how it is done. Not like you seem to assume. The first one dropped out as he found one along the way. This is alway the risk. I took the risk and ordered them not knowing if Bunny or anyone else for that matter would still be there when it came time to order the colors on them. I took no money down and held them all to no obligation. I contacted them when I finaly got the call and confirmed. A year after I commited to them. I worked with them on the colors from that point. Colors I had no idea if they were to back out that I could readily sell. Remember they had no money down on these. I did not obligate them to them even at this stage. I paid AGD for them. I arranged shipping on them to me. All before I was paid a dime for them. I took ALL the risks and I worked with them on every step during and after and worked out the problems.

I had an issue with RRFireblades marker too (who took the second one) and because of the type of issue was able to get a part out to him rather than send it back in. he was able to see it and decide if he wanted it or not BEFORE paying for it. And I am still working on correcting the barrel mistake on his. That one is particularly hard to do.

But in this case...I cannot send a program to Bunny or I would. We needs its presence for this issue. Unfortunately. I hate it but thats the way it is.

He can and should send it in. Its a color he likes and he loves the looks. I am sorry this is occuring but without cooperation I do not really know what to do. I cannot force him to do it. He has to decide what he wants to do. I will pick up the shipping costs back to AGD if thats what it takes to get this marker fixed and back into his hands and him what he wanted.

Again we do not know if its a Software problem. one can assume it is but we might also assume this particular software might be exposing a issue with an hes or a board. We cannot jump to conclusions yet.

One thing is for certain is that people that were there at SE AO know that I said this at SE AO.. "I will not deal with anymore X mags". The problems are occuring far too often, customer expectation is far greater than on anything else (and understandable), Issues too common so far and its not worth the aggravation for little old me to do it. The profit is so thin its just not worth it. I said this then and I mean it. Let someone else do it. I have had far too many issues with these two items. I am batting zero on them. Someone else with better kharma can deal these. Not me. I get Bunny settled and RR finished up and I am done with em!

[LockNLoad]

wow!

I am surprised to hear that you got a bad marker from AGD.

I think I will stick with my Classic Mag. I would be very upset too if I had to wait that long and spend that much money not to be able to play with it immediately.

[GA Devil]

When theres a problem with a new car (which happens ALL the time and a car USUALLY costs more then $1300) They tell you to get it to the dealer to be fixed right? Do you run them in the ground or do you just take the car to be fixed? As for anyone I have know they take it to get fixed and GO ON WITH THEIR LIFE. You have a random problem so send it in get it fixed get your gun back....enjoy. This is getting way out of control. If your going to leave then quit talking about it and do it. AGD is doing exactly what any company would or could do. Offer to fix the problem. When you get a car new is it 0 miles? No. Again something that costs way more then $1300 and most of the times comes with more problems then this. But do people cause this much problem? Its something that just happens sometimes to everything in life.

[hitech]

I don't remember seeing it posted anywhere. What is the shot buffer ("debounce") set at? At what setting will it stop "bouncing"? It's quite possible that it is set at zero, and THAT could be the problem. So Bunny, would you humor me and post what the shot buffer is set at? Can you try setting it to a higher number and see if the marker will stop "bouncing"?