Can paintball be saved ?

[Lohman446]

Are you saying it takes more skill to control a semi marker while shooting?

No, I'm saying at least in ramping noone is trying to convince me "no, its true semi, I just set it really really well"

[txaggie08]

no this wasnt ramping.....


These guys are running inwards in an effort to get as close as possible BEFORE they start firing. Making a move to bunker and waiting till the barrel is a few inches from the opponent.....


When i was big into it, we called that "a good way to have the field own kick you out", not "cool".

Is this some new macho thing the younger crowd enjoys ?

[geekwarrior]

These guys are running inwards in an effort to get as close as possible BEFORE they start firing. Making a move to bunker and waiting till the barrel is a few inches from the opponent.....

they don't have shooting skills anymore so they have to get as close as possible to make sure they don't miss...

does a football player tackle a QB hard enough to get the tackle or does he try and hit him as hard as he can to shake him up?

if you watched videos from about 3-5 years ago it actually seemed worse..the player would stick his gun out into the guys side and pull the trigger

[flashgordon]

they don't have shooting skills anymore so they have to get as close as possible to make sure they don't miss...

does a football player tackle a QB hard enough to get the tackle or does he try and hit him as hard as he can to shake him up?

if you watched videos from about 3-5 years ago it actually seemed worse..the player would stick his gun out into the guys side and pull the trigger

In speedball sometimes it's easier to bunker than get your *** into a prolonged fire fight

[txaggie08]

THeres a huge difference between bunkering someone, and being cruel to your oponent. IM not talking about sliding around the side fo the bunker for a quick shot at him. Im talking about going to extra effort to get withing 1-2 feet and unload 4-5 shots into there head(or back)...


Thats not sporting, thats horse****.

To make the football comparison, these guys are pulling chop-blocks, not making a good tackle.

[CKY_Alliance]

THeres a huge difference between bunkering someone, and being cruel to your oponent. IM not talking about sliding around the side fo the bunker for a quick shot at him. Im talking about going to extra effort to get withing 1-2 feet and unload 4-5 shots into there head(or back)...


Thats not sporting, thats horse****.

To make the football comparison, these guys are pulling chop-blocks, not making a good tackle.

See the 4-5 is to make sure they break..and if u play speedball and think this is overshooting..well you might wanna consider woodsball..then again thats barely considered overshooting in woodsball as well...and in the back or head (i prefer neck) it's probably so (and in my case) so they dont turn on you to try and get the 1 for 1...you shoot them in a soft spot then they are more focused on the pain then tryin to turn on you...


and dont get me wrong..im talking side of the neck where it is generally solid, but hurts..i am never intintionally trying to hurt anyone when playing.. i just want to make sure they arent going to hurt me and ruin my effort to eliminate them..

[Beemer]

See the 4-5 is to make sure they break..and if u play speedball and think this is overshooting..well you might wanna consider woodsball..then again thats barely considered overshooting in woodsball as well...and in the back or head (i prefer neck) it's probably so (and in my case) so they dont turn on you to try and get the 1 for 1...you shoot them in a soft spot then they are more focused on the pain then tryin to turn on you...


and dont get me wrong..im talking side of the neck where it is generally solid, but hurts..i am never intintionally trying to hurt anyone when playing.. i just want to make sure they arent going to hurt me and ruin my effort to eliminate them..

Let me guess. I bet you are 19 or younger. Thats a contradiction. Sounds like intent to me. Is your umbrella policy payed up?

Peace Out

[rabidchihauhau]

Ummmm, no...

I played in Lively tournaments that did not allow CA. My buddy bought one of those new 6 packs from AGD. That thing made a huge difference. I bought one after that tournament, and never used it in an actual tournament...



I was told by AGD that the 6 pack was intended to allow CA in tournaments, so I warned before I bought it.



Yup, and it's not just confinded to ramping...

The 6 pak sold out on its introduction at the Lively Masters BECAUSE they allowed CA and it was just about the only way that someone using 12-grams could keep up on their air changes.

I believe that Tom has said in the past that he introed the product in order to give people a reason to stay with 12-grams.

One of the things that made the Masters nationally popular was the fact that they allowed CA, and therefore many of the top west coast teams could compete in a manner they were familiar with.

My team stuck with 12-grams, believing we had an advantage in our ability to vary the output pressure of our valves by either shooting down a 12-gram (for those 'blooper' shots that just managed to curve over a bunker) or producing 'zingers' by never shooting more than 5 shots on a 12-gram and rapidly changing (with the aforemnentioned 6Pak+). This of course supercharged the valve and boosted FPS.

There was also the added advantage that you could always discourage pesky referees by positioning yourself so that the 12-grams discharged from the Pak would bounce off their heads, followed by "hey, I warned you to move..."

***

Incentive for the skills progression? How about something as simple as a hopper sticker?

To formalize things a bit more if someone is interested in the above:

Stock Gun Qualified (SG)
Pump Gun Qualified (PG)
Stock Semi Qualified (SS)
Electronic Semi Qualified (ES)
Enhanced Electronic Qualified (EE)

You would need at least the following for any kind of certification to have meaning:

1. registration of the player using some verifiable form of ID and a registration database
2. a list of fields that offer various levels of play; info on a field would have to include types and dates of what they offered and an 'approved contact' for the location who can verify attendance and participation
3. a list of events offering various levels of play and the same contact info as above
4. individuals - above reproach and beyond political BS - to serve as regional coordinators; these people would work with the fields and events to 'certify' various player's attendance.
5. a list of markers and modifications allowed under each classification
6. a 'cheating report' structure to help oversee potential abuse
7. a 'court of last appeal' to arbitrate disputes and resolve issues
8. a list of things that people can do to earn 'days'; for example, putting together a successful stock gun team, event or series ought to be worth something...

[rabidchihauhau]

the court of last appeals might be staffed by long-time people still in the game, such as Palmer, or Bud, or maybe even refugees from the game, such as Tom (and, increasingly, myself)...

[Beemer]

Hey you forgot the "How to make my gun safe and be safe sticker." So I dont shoot out someones eye in a safe zone. That would be [SQC] Safety Qualified and certified.

[BigEvil]

LOL. I know the feeling.


Just as long as everyone is prepared to buy another paintball marker next year, what does anyone care about quality?

Let everyone keep buying new markers. Me and my mags will still be on the field tearing them up.

[Beemer]

well, I can tell you from personal experience that the first 'arguments' were for barrel length and whether or not the new-fangled 'constant air' should be allowed in tournaments or not.



The next argument was against agitating hoppers, then over the introduction of HPA (I fought that one with Tom at the Paintcheck 5 Man event back in, I think it was '92. For the record, I had no problem with Tom, and no inherent problem with the technology. My main concern was the lack of testing and experience data and the fact that such "potentially" influential technology should not be introed at a tournament for the first time...)

Huh So YOU were one of those guys everyone was talking about holding up the train.

Come on TKs middle name was Safety First.

Airgun Designs, Inc. has been a long-time supporter of the IPPA and applauds their efforts to establish safety standards for our industry. We feel that we are acting responsibly in not selling nitrogen systems until the safety questions have been answered. At the time of this writing, there are less than twelve nitrogen systems in existence. One of our systems has recently been tested by AUTHORIZED TESTING INC. a DOT proved testing facility and consultant to the IPPA on safety issues. Page seven of the report states "BASED UPON THE TEST DATA OBTAINED AND DOCUMENTED HEREIN, THE AIRGUN SYSTEM SUBMITTED FOR EVALUATION APPEARS TO BE WELL ENGINEERED AND HAS INHERENT PRESSURE CAPABILITIES WELL IN EXCESS OF THOSE ASSOCIATED WITH NORMAL USE." Complete copies of this report are available from Airgun Designs at no charge.

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=161699&highlight=tanks

[Beemer]

***

As for the rest of it - ALL of those suggestions have gone before; some were even attempted. Some failed because the time was not right, others failed because it was not seen as being in the interest of the people who have the money, and still others failed because 'independance' is a threat to some business interests.

This is a cut from post #41. Guess that sums up why the NPPL and the IPPA didnt stay hand in hand. They all want a bigger piece of the pie when theres plenty to go around. Even to blow off standards and safety to get that bigger piece.

[cynikal]

i remember playing locally in my first tourney with a 6 pak - they told me to loose it (they said that it allowed 'to fast of a 12gram change'. if i remember correctly that was debated for a while just before everyone turn on to CA.

[slateman]

You are living the modern life cycle of recreation sports.

x-c skiing
alpine skiing
tennis
etc
etc

Only FISHING is different. but then, fishing embraces BEER.

And softball. You drink beer and once in a while, hit a ball.

As for the original topic, paintball is fine. Leave it alone.