Can paintball be saved ?

[AGD]

Ok, a couple of points:

We developed the 6Pak because of the need for more air for the gravity feed semi prototype (Panther) we had developed to be usable in tournaments. But besides that it was a natural extension of the super popular Micro-CA (which stood for micro-constant-air get it?). We developed it to sell and make money, if we knew it would have been eclipsed by them allowing CA in tournaments we wouldn't have bothered.

We did intro it at the Masters and we sold out the first afternoon and had to have people back at the factory make more and next day air them down. They only allowed 12 grams in that tournament but there had been discussion of CA for the future. The biggest problem they percieved was the inability to refill the tanks fast enough. At the end of the tourney I think it was Budd had showed Jim his fill system and Jim decided to allow CA in the future. Of course our crack marketing department took full credit for killing off 12 gram tournaments

The second point is that we had cheating way back then. Like now it was hard to do anything about it. It was fought by clean teams promoting their reps and vouching for other clean playing teams. It was the highest honor if another team told you "we would play them without refs". Unfortunately in the woods it was really hard to do a good ref job and the refs were all volunteers if I remember right. The cheaters started to win more and it was all over after that.

My two cents from 20 years in this game.

AGD

[cyrus-the-virus]

Am I the onlyone who has troble aiming their gun while using ramping?

I tried out ramping on a supair field (first time ever owning a marker with ramping) and I coulden't aim worth a crap.

Swiched over to semi, and the next game I got 5 out of seven people from my back-left can.

Am I alone on this?

[Aggravated Assault]

Wish it was a possible dream. When is that next AO day, anyway?

This got me thinking. There seems to always be someone wanting to do an AO day or something. Theres always willing AOers to come out.

If someone had a vision or idea, where would you start? Events maybe? There's threads about how dissapointed many of us are with the current climate in paintball. Why couldn't the people on AO put on an event, tournament, whatever that implements those things many here believe in. Show everyone how its done.


An AO event not for us, but by us.


Crazy? Dont know, but Just think of the wealth of knowledge on these boards. People with their own paintball buisnesses, experienced refs, field owners, people who work with/for distributers, pro shops,custom shops, and you name it. It wouldn't be for not knowing how.

[RogueFactor]

Am I the onlyone who has troble aiming their gun while using ramping?

I tried out ramping on a supair field (first time ever owning a marker with ramping) and I coulden't aim worth a crap.

Swiched over to semi, and the next game I got 5 out of seven people from my back-left can.

Am I alone on this?

If you think its hard to aim while shooting 15 bps ramping, try to aim while shooting 15 bps in semi. Then try it using a mechanical marker.

Youll find it takes a lot more skill to do.

[hitech]

Of course our crack marketing department took full credit for killing off 12 gram tournaments

Just to be clear, no one from AGD ever said that to me. They just didn't disbute it when I said they did. And that includes you, Tom

[cyrus-the-virus]

If you think its hard to aim while shooting 15 bps ramping, try to aim while shooting 15 bps in semi. Then try it using a mechanical marker.

Youll find it takes a lot more skill to do.

I don't shoot 15BPS because that 5 more BPS than I need

Also you did notice the part where I said I swiched FROM ramping TO semi right

Your post confused me to no possable end....

[RogueFactor]

I don't shoot 15BPS because that 5 more BPS than I need

Also you did notice the part where I said I swiched FROM ramping TO semi right

Your post confused me to no possable end....

Yes, I did notice that. The implication from my post is to say you would find it harder to aim while not ramping if you could actually pull the same speed in semi as you were shooting in ramping.

I shall rephrase for you

If you think its hard to aim while ramping, try to aim while shooting the same speed as you were ramping in semi. Then try aiming while shooting that same speed using a mechanical marker.

Youll find it takes a lot more skill to do.

[cyrus-the-virus]

Yes, I did notice that. The implication from my post is to say you would find it harder to aim while not ramping if you could actually pull the same speed in semi as you were shooting in ramping.

I shall rephrase for you

Now I understand except my fingers can't move faster than 12(i think, my e-mag trigger was EXTREAMLY sloppy soo idk)

[CKY_Alliance]

See, this attitude right here is THE problem as I see it in PB today. They will cheat against me, so I have to pre-emptively treat each person as though they had already cheated.

Somehow, I manage to play speedball and hold my own while still:

1) Never putting more than three balls on a person, EVER.
2) Never wiping a hit or intimidating a ref into changing their call.
3) Never intentionally bunkering someone who is of less skill than I.
4) Never intentionally shooting someone on exposed skin while bunkering them.

Somehow I manage to play speedball and not break any of those four edicts.

It IS possible, it just takes a little effort.

My biggest gripe currently is that no one has any honor or respect for anyone anymore.

They're rude, crude, and cheat, while simultaneously bragging about all of the above. Makes me want to strangle someone, and then kick their parents in the balls. Even worse is when said miscreant is my age or just a fuzz younger (IE of an age that they REALLY should know better by now).

Basically, at this point, I only play with people I know, at fields that I trust to be safe and not packed with douche-bags.

I just bought some land about six months ago, so after I get my house built, I am very likely going to invest in a sup-air field and some grass seed.

Excuse me for not wanting to be elminated by the person I just eliminated..so sorry.. what the hell was I thinking?

[CoolHand]

Excuse me for not wanting to be elminated by the person I just eliminated..so sorry.. what the hell was I thinking?

Just keep repeating to yourself:

"It's only a game."

"It's only a game."

"It's only a . . . . . .

If the refs are paying attention, they'll see it was a late shot. If not, it's no big.

It's certainly not worth intentionally inflicting pain on every opponent you face, because they might or could cheat.

THAT is exactly what I'm talking about. The drive to want to win so badly that you forget that were just playing a game. It's not life or death, the entirety of your future does not hang on that elimination.

To win at any cost and by any means is the mantra of paintball now. Because, how can you rub it everyone's face if you DON'T win? You can't, so in order to be the rub-er, instead of the rub-ee, you MUST win.

I play the game to be outside with my buds, tinker on some cool technology, and generally have a good time. I could give a crap if I win or lose. I've had fun on days where I didn't mark a single player.

I play paintball because it's fun..so sorry.. what the hell was I thinking?

Normally, I'd just say let's agree to disagree and leave it at that, but the problem in this particular case is that your style of "do anything to win" PB is bleeding over into my "just want to have fun" world, and it's pissing me off. I was minding my own business, not forcing people to be good sports or even enjoy the game (GASP ), simply playing like I wish and hoping to be left alone.

Alas, no longer are our groups big enough to command a field all our own, so we must mingle with the masses. That's where your game starts to get all over me. It's like working around a hog enclosure. Try as you might, you can't be there and not get covered in crap.

It has occurred to me that I might just be bitter about our groups always being smaller, and the kids always being rude, crude, and obnoxious, but I think I have a legitimate gripe.

However, legitimate or not, there's nothing I can do, except perhaps buy my own field and tell tool boxes that I disagree with not to come back. Anymore, that's looking like the best option.

[MinimagRockin']

I find myself sitting here in a serious paintball funk.

Almost all of the old school paintball companies/personalities are out of buisiness or have left. Support for any product older than about a year or two is completly gone, even from (most) manufacturer websites. New markers are being made with serious quality issues, even high end.....Angel, Dye... The resale of markers is to the point that buying new is a completly stupid thing to do, especially when you consider that no true innovation has happened in years. Any good marker a few years old can't be given away.I won't even get into the hype surrounding new releases.

With the constant corporate merging and dealing being done innovation is a thing of the past. The legal landscape prevents the grassroots development that made the sport what it is. The whole thing is slowly moving towards being one large umbrella covered by one management company. We will all be shooting the same marker...an "Ion"...

The world of rec play has degraded to the point that trying to get a friendly honest game on is unheard of. This behaviour has dribbled into the world of woodsball as well. Cheating is rampant. Many owners/promoters have resigned themselves to a shoulder shrug of "thats the way it is" rather than actively trying to do something about it. Most players have as well.

Referees have become a complete laughing stock and complete embarrasment in almost every venue across the board. There is no integrity, no consistancy, complete lack of reason to respect the authority they are supposed to represent. Demonstrated by players at any venue, anywhere.

The whole game is stenching of "squeeze it for all its worth" and get out. Disposable markers made for a short term player. A bunch of new players introduced to a world of "slotmachine" games where your only limitation is how much money you can afford to spend in paint. Cause we all know you are only as good as the amount of paint you can waste, and how fast.



The only good game that is to be found is for those of us still lucky enough to have a good group of friends to play some renegade ball in a back yard. Following the code of honor that all should play with......

Good post. I haven't played paintball in years but I did see some pro action a couple months ago on espn and was pretty turned off by the style of play. Each player shot as much and as fast as they could. I used to say it back when I played and I am definately saying it now: limit the amount of paint one can bring into a game. That would make the game way more dynamic and fun to play/watch.

[punkncat]

Just keep repeating to yourself:

"It's only a game."

"It's only a game."

"It's only a . . . . . .

If the refs are paying attention, they'll see it was a late shot. If not, it's no big.

It's certainly not worth intentionally inflicting pain on every opponent you face, because they might or could cheat.

THAT is exactly what I'm talking about. The drive to want to win so badly that you forget that were just playing a game. It's not life or death, the entirety of your future does not hang on that elimination.

To win at any cost and by any means is the mantra of paintball now. Because, how can you rub it everyone's face if you DON'T win? You can't, so in order to be the rub-er, instead of the rub-ee, you MUST win.

I play the game to be outside with my buds, tinker on some cool technology, and generally have a good time. I could give a crap if I win or lose. I've had fun on days where I didn't mark a single player.

I play paintball because it's fun..so sorry.. what the hell was I thinking?

Normally, I'd just say let's agree to disagree and leave it at that, but the problem in this particular case is that your style of "do anything to win" PB is bleeding over into my "just want to have fun" world, and it's pissing me off. I was minding my own business, not forcing people to be good sports or even enjoy the game (GASP ), simply playing like I wish and hoping to be left alone.

Alas, no longer are our groups big enough to command a field all our own, so we must mingle with the masses. That's where your game starts to get all over me. It's like working around a hog enclosure. Try as you might, you can't be there and not get covered in crap.

It has occurred to me that I might just be bitter about our groups always being smaller, and the kids always being rude, crude, and obnoxious, but I think I have a legitimate gripe.

However, legitimate or not, there's nothing I can do, except perhaps buy my own field and tell tool boxes that I disagree with not to come back. Anymore, that's looking like the best option.

Great reply, good points.

It is disappointing as you see the group of good friends and honorable players drift away from the sport. Espcially due mostly to crap like what you replied about.

[CKY_Alliance]

Just keep repeating to yourself:

"It's only a game."

"It's only a game."

"It's only a . . . . . .

If the refs are paying attention, they'll see it was a late shot. If not, it's no big.

It's certainly not worth intentionally inflicting pain on every opponent you face, because they might or could cheat.

THAT is exactly what I'm talking about. The drive to want to win so badly that you forget that were just playing a game. It's not life or death, the entirety of your future does not hang on that elimination.

To win at any cost and by any means is the mantra of paintball now. Because, how can you rub it everyone's face if you DON'T win? You can't, so in order to be the rub-er, instead of the rub-ee, you MUST win.

I play the game to be outside with my buds, tinker on some cool technology, and generally have a good time. I could give a crap if I win or lose. I've had fun on days where I didn't mark a single player.

I play paintball because it's fun..so sorry.. what the hell was I thinking?

Normally, I'd just say let's agree to disagree and leave it at that, but the problem in this particular case is that your style of "do anything to win" PB is bleeding over into my "just want to have fun" world, and it's pissing me off. I was minding my own business, not forcing people to be good sports or even enjoy the game (GASP ), simply playing like I wish and hoping to be left alone.

Alas, no longer are our groups big enough to command a field all our own, so we must mingle with the masses. That's where your game starts to get all over me. It's like working around a hog enclosure. Try as you might, you can't be there and not get covered in crap.

It has occurred to me that I might just be bitter about our groups always being smaller, and the kids always being rude, crude, and obnoxious, but I think I have a legitimate gripe.

However, legitimate or not, there's nothing I can do, except perhaps buy my own field and tell tool boxes that I disagree with not to come back. Anymore, that's looking like the best option.

First let me clarify..i am speaking of tournamnet play..not everyday walk on.

Now then, when did i say do whatever it takes to win? I never said "shoot em till they cry,wipe every hit,and play even if you cant see out of your mask because of all the paint"..i dont ever recall me saying that... and go back and read a lot of my post in threads like these...the thing i preach the most is HAVE FUN because it is just a game, when i play i do have fun even if my opponent is cheating..ye it pisses me off, but i still do my best to have fun. If the game was no longer fun to me i would not play.


To many generalizations.


I don't see how most of AO has fun playing the sport..most of you are to busy scrutinizing every little aspect.

[CoolHand]

First let me clarify..i am speaking of tournamnet play..not everyday walk on.

Now then, when did i say do whatever it takes to win? I never said "shoot em till they cry,wipe every hit,and play even if you cant see out of your mask because of all the paint"..i dont ever recall me saying that... and go back and read a lot of my post in threads like these...the thing i preach the most is HAVE FUN because it is just a game, when i play i do have fun even if my opponent is cheating..ye it pisses me off, but i still do my best to have fun. If the game was no longer fun to me i would not play.


To many generalizations.


I don't see how most of AO has fun playing the sport..most of you are to busy scrutinizing every little aspect.

Well, that's a different story then, isn't it?

Let me compliment you on being able to "turn off" your tourney style when you play walk-on, because nearly every tourney player I've been around (with the exception of friends of mine who I brow beat if they whomp on the first timers) plays exactly the same way regardless of who is on the other end of the field.

That inability to turn off their killer attitude in walk-on play is a great deal of what makes me angry.

[Lohman446]

First let me clarify..i am speaking of tournamnet play..not everyday walk on.

Now then, when did i say do whatever it takes to win? I never said "shoot em till they cry,wipe every hit,and play even if you cant see out of your mask because of all the paint"..i dont ever recall me saying that... and go back and read a lot of my post in threads like these...the thing i preach the most is HAVE FUN because it is just a game, when i play i do have fun even if my opponent is cheating..ye it pisses me off, but i still do my best to have fun. If the game was no longer fun to me i would not play.


To many generalizations.


I don't see how most of AO has fun playing the sport..most of you are to busy scrutinizing every little aspect.

Why is it different at tournament? Sorry folks, this is still only a game, regardless if you are playing with a group of friends in your back yard or at some great PSP event. Its still only a game.

"Its ok, I do it with the tournament crowd". Call me hypocritical cause I did it too, but it doesn't make it right.