A Defense of Marriage/Gay Rights Amendment

**shartley** · 03-08-2004, 05:02 AM

Originally posted by logamus

i in no way have stated that the situation gays in this country are facing are equal to the other examples. they are not the same. if my earlier posts were not clear on that then i am sorry. i was just trying to find other social issues of the past that divided the country, not try to equalize the gay marriage issue to them.

the violence towards gays in this country is very minor when compaied to groups of the past, but the fact that violence is there makes my point. many(perhaps all, i honestly dont know) hate crime bills have sexual orientation provisions included just as race and religion. that somewhat illustrates the fact that governments know people are prayed upon based on their sexual orientation.

**logamus** · 03-08-2004, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by shartley

i disagree with you there. any time someones civil rights are violated it is a civil rights issue. someone bullied because of their apperance IS a civil rights issue. just as someone hanged because of their color or tied up and left for dead because of their orientation. now most playground bullys dont find themselves in court, but that doesnt make them right.

Originally posted by shartley

while i agree to a certain point, not all crime is hate crime imho. i do think it is important to distinguish a crime as being committed baised only on hate as opposed to drug related, gang related, etc.

**1stdeadeye** · 03-08-2004, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by logamus

i disagree with you there. any time someones civil rights are violated it is a civil rights issue. someone bullied because of their apperance IS a civil rights issue. just as someone hanged because of their color or tied up and left for dead because of their orientation. now most playground bullys dont find themselves in court, but that doesnt make them right.

You need to learn not to die on every hill! My boss uses that expression all the time. Pick your battles carefully. It does not help your cause to fight every little battle, but lose the war due to a perception of pettiness.

Civil rights is not an issue of bullies or morons. It is a matter of government human rights abuses. Blacks can rightfully assert those claims. Gays can not. That would be like me going to war over the temperature of my Chardonnay being wrong.

Gays are not oppressed. They are not beaten in the streets. They are not being routinely harrassed by police with dogs, etc...

while i agree to a certain point, not all crime is hate crime imho. i do think it is important to distinguish a crime as being committed baised only on hate as opposed to drug related, gang related, etc.

Hate crimes are a stupid category. Do you commit crimes against the people you like? Usually you have a strong dislike for the person you are committing the crime against, hence most crimes are "hate" based!

**logamus** · 03-09-2004, 09:55 PM

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye

You need to learn not to die on every hill! My boss uses that expression all the time. Pick your battles carefully. It does not help your cause to fight every little battle, but lose the war due to a perception of pettiness.

Civil rights is not an issue of bullies or morons. It is a matter of government human rights abuses. Blacks can rightfully assert those claims. Gays can not. That would be like me going to war over the temperature of my Chardonnay being wrong. Gays are not oppressed. They are not beaten in the streets. They are not being routinely harrassed by police with dogs, etc...

civil rights can be violated by anyone, not just the government. someone lured out of a bar, beaten, tied to a fence post and allowed to die simply because he was gay is a civil rights issue. im not saying that all the gays have to ride a the back of the bus, not even close. however, to say that the rights of gays is not a civil rights issue is incorrect. why should we sit back and let the status of gays in this country slide to that of blacks in the 1950s before we do something? whats wrong with nipping it in the bud, worked in iraq didnt it?

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye

Hate crimes are a stupid category. Do you commit crimes against the people you like? Usually you have a strong dislike for the person you are committing the crime against, hence most crimes are "hate" based!

well im not really the best one to answer this as i dont commit alot of crime these days. however, there is a distinction to be made between just randomly breaking into someones car to steal their cd's, and breaking into someones car just because they are black, jewish, gay, etc. a "hate" crime is one where the primary motive is basied on the hate of a particular group. stealing cd's to pay for your heroin addiction i would not say has much to do with hate. example, two guys need money to buy cocaine. they break into a paintball store and steal all the guns to sell on ebay or such. the owner of the store just happens to be jewish. hate motivated? prolly not. two guys break into the same store. they take all the guns off the walls, spraypaint "DIE JEW" on the walls. pile the guns in the floor and spraypaint them red. hate motivated, yes. there is a difference and a reason for "hate" based laws. while the first example is a very serious crime, with out hate laws the second is a basic vandalizing, perhaps as stiff as a b&e.

**aaron_mag** · 03-09-2004, 10:13 PM

Would argue...but I'm off to a gay wedding reception. Hey, I do live in Portland. It is improving our tourism industry at the moment.

All you other cities keep fighting it. We don't want to share this revenue with the rest of you. With San Francisco to the south of us the pot is already too small....

(Not kidding about the reception...really am going to one)

**FactsOfLife** · 03-09-2004, 11:26 PM

so who throws the bouquet??

**aaron_mag** · 03-09-2004, 11:41 PM

No bouquet was thrown...but my wife was, technically, the best man.

My wife has worked with the guy for a long time. So she was one of the witnesses. Since he signed under the groom she was technical the best man and the witness for the.... uh.... bride in the tuxedo was the maid of honor.

Oh how tangled it gets. Luckily I only had to stay at the reception for 50 minutes. That has nothing to do with hating being at gay weddings and everything to do with hating all social gatherings. Time to go to bed......

-Signed the crazy hermit......

**1stdeadeye** · 03-10-2004, 05:03 PM

Originally posted by aaron_mag
No bouquet was thrown...but my wife was, technically, the best man.

Well if he was gay, I guess your wife would be the "best man" there!

My wife has worked with the guy for a long time. So she was one of the witnesses. Since he signed under the groom she was technical the best man and the witness for the.... uh.... bride in the tuxedo was the maid of honor.

Oh how tangled it gets. Luckily I only had to stay at the reception for 50 minutes. That has nothing to do with hating being at gay weddings and everything to do with hating all social gatherings. Time to go to bed......

-Signed the crazy hermit......

How did you keep a straight face?

Did you kiss the bride in the receiving line?

**shartley** · 03-10-2004, 05:20 PM

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye
How did you keep a straight face?

**1stdeadeye** · 03-10-2004, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by shartley

I made a pun without knowing it!

**aaron_mag** · 03-10-2004, 06:11 PM

The pun master need not 'know' they are trying to make a pun. It is just instinctual.

In Oregon 54 percent are against gay marriage.

I think like 35 percent are in favor of it.

The rest just don't care.

Their too busy fighting about other stuff I suppose.....

Personally I think it is fine, but it did surprise me when our city came to the forefront of the fight. It was a total blindside.

I suppose when you are between San Franscisco and Seattle you have to try something to make us stand out. Even if we are just following San Fransciscos lead.....

**1stdeadeye** · 03-10-2004, 07:11 PM

Originally posted by aaron_mag
The pun master need not 'know' they are trying to make a pun. It is just instinctual.

In Oregon 54 percent are against gay marriage.

I think like 35 percent are in favor of it.

The rest just don't care.

Their too busy fighting about other stuff I suppose.....

Personally I think it is fine, but it did surprise me when our city came to the forefront of the fight. It was a total blindside.

I suppose when you are between San Franscisco and Seattle you have to try something to make us stand out. Even if we are just following San Fransciscos lead.....

It is official. Portland is now full of Fruits and Nuts as well as San Fran!!!!!!!!!

**MayAMonkeyBeYourPinata** · 03-10-2004, 07:19 PM

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye

It is official. Portland is now full of Fruits and Nuts as well as San Fran!!!!!!!!!

No Rasheed Wallace left Portland sheesh!

**1stdeadeye** · 03-10-2004, 08:13 PM

Originally posted by MayAMonkeyBeYourPinata

No Rasheed Wallace left Portland sheesh!

Okay, just the Fruits then!

**logamus** · 03-10-2004, 10:34 PM

well i bet those guys were really well dressed.

A Defense of Marriage/Gay Rights Amendment

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