IONized 'Mag Pneu-frame?

[BigEvil]

Anyone know how many PSIs it takes to trip the MPA-3 ?

[angel4life1]

A good noid to use with a spring return ram is this one

http://www.airsoldier.com/cgi-bin/miva?Merchant2/merchant.mvc+Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AOS&Product_Code=SMC-S070C-SDG-32&Category_Code=SOLENOIDS

It is so small. You would have plenty of room in the frame for this.

[Scott Hudnall]

To understand how the ION board and air flow works, you should follow the link above to the WARPIG site.
At the Solenoid:
Air line flows in, directly through a "T" fitting, which is the first barb on the solenoid, to pressurize the dump/firing chamber in the ION. Air is constantly going through that line. This line feeds pressure to the BACK of the spool valve.

Air pressure is constantly in the second barb on the solenoid, also, and when you trigger the switch on the ION board, it SHUTS OFF the air in this line. This line, talking in 'mag terms, acts like the return spring and sear that holds the bolt back....all in one, and pressurizes the front end of the spool valve. When you shut it off (via trigger/switch) it depressurized the front end of the spool valve, allowing the pressure in the back end of the gun to push the bolt forward, which chambers the ball and fires the paintball.

It's the forward and backward movement of the bolt inside of the spool valve which shuts off pressure in the back, allowing the front pressure to re-set the bolt.

Take a look at the video.....it will make more sense.

A new solenoid, however, which is a "3-way, normally closed" would work perfect to replace the ION solenoid on the board, and should work in this project perfectly.

[noahyay]

a normally open three way is just what I am looking for in my newest project title new gun design here in the workshop.

Only question is if the ion can exhaust at a high enough flow and pressure to fire a paintball...

[nicad]

Short answer: no.

[noahyay]

thats what I figured, ive been messing around with the design a bit though, you could easily make an autococker that performs like a intimmidator.

Nicad: do you know the amount of scfm's needed to fire a paintball at 100psi? for example: a valve is rated at 20 scfm at 100 psi. Will it fire a paintball?

did some calculations:

275fps
.0036spf
0.0024seconds per 8 inches
0.0048seconds acceleration time

.68 diameter
.34 radius
.36298 area
2.9 cubic inches for 8 inches acceleration area

1728 cu inches in cu foot

10cfm
17280cubic inches a minute
288cubic inches a second
1.3824 cubic inches per .0048 seconds

this seems to tell me it takes slightly over 20 scfm to fire a paintball, but this is guessing im pretty sure that I dont know what im doing.

[Arstron]

does anyone know the amount of force needed to push an automag sear at the very bottom of the sear? I am currious what it is with a classic valve and rt/x valve with stock on/offs and ule trigger kits.

[nicad]

on the trigger rod- I do not recall what the stock on/off or the RT on off is, but the ULT is right about 1lb.
I am thinking the RT is about 3lb... but I am not for sure.


noahyay-
No idea on the CFM required. Maybe PBJosh would know??
I guess one way to find out is to try your esitmation with a real life setup. That would tell you very quickly if your on the right track.

[paintball sycho]

the ion board would work perfectly for what is trying to be accomplished. its quite simple. think of a cocker. if you flip teh hoses on the ram it uns backwords. so if the ion board actuated the mpv-3 imediatly when you turned it on, just flop the hoses to make it fire when you pull the trigger.

[nicad]

the ion board would work perfectly for what is trying to be accomplished. its quite simple. think of a cocker. if you flip teh hoses on the ram it uns backwords. so if the ion board actuated the mpv-3 imediatly when you turned it on, just flop the hoses to make it fire when you pull the trigger.

What do you base your information on? It will not work.
A cocker is a 4-way. The Ion is a 3-way, and it is a Normally Open valve, with no option of changing the "vent" and "load" ports..

I'll give a DW t-shirt and a load of stickers to whoever can make an Ion board+solenoid activate a mag sear.

go!

[Scott Hudnall]

Nicad -

from what you know about the ION board and solenoid -

Could we change the solenoid? Put in a different solenoid (or wire around the existing one) that would work as a 3 or 4 way normall closed valve? I'm interested in your thoughts and if you have any parts in mind that would work for that.

Obviously, in this project, the problem is the solenoid, not anything else on the ION board. So if we used a different solenoid, it might work?

Thanks my friend!

[nicad]

sure the Ion board will drive almost any type of solenoid.. but it is pretty much overkill on the power ouput since it was designed to directly punch a solenoid running at ~150psi. For your E-pneu-mag projects, I don't see needing to run over 60psi, which most any small 10mm noid (or the VERY tiny one from ASP).

But, now what are you left with? an Ion board w/o its solenoid. Then why use an Ion board-- why not another type of board? Maybe the Ion board is small and self-contained? cheap maybe? For the firing modes? I don't know.. I personally would go with a mini-Morlock or some Predator-variant or something along those lines-- but it would be more $$. Up to yall!

[Scott Hudnall]

Come on Nicad......put one together for us to see. It's a small challenge that will take you all of 30 minutes...

You've done some amazing stuff and I just reviewed your DW trigger video again. Yes, it kicks arse!

Is there an actuator besides the MPA-3 that you would recommend?

Thanks again, my friend!

[Arstron]

What do you base your information on? It will not work.
A cocker is a 4-way. The Ion is a 3-way, and it is a Normally Open valve, with no option of changing the "vent" and "load" ports..

I'll give a DW t-shirt and a load of stickers to whoever can make an Ion board+solenoid activate a mag sear.

go!

What about somthing like I said earlier (I have a hard time of puting my thoughts into words). Take a ram similar to a autococker, have the line that vents when it is fired hooked up to the front of the ram and the constant preasure hose to the rear. When you pull the trigger the front will vent and allow the rear to move forward. Or am I completly wrong in thinking that the solenoid puts out the same amount of preasure from each line?

[nicad]

What about somthing like I said earlier (I have a hard time of puting my thoughts into words). Take a ram similar to a autococker, have the line that vents when it is fired hooked up to the front of the ram and the constant preasure hose to the rear. When you pull the trigger the front will vent and allow the rear to move forward. Or am I completly wrong in thinking that the solenoid puts out the same amount of preasure from each line?

That is creative thinking, and would almost work!
however, on any air ram that has dual air inputs and one shaft output (ala- cocker ram), if equal pressure is applied to both the front and the back, the ram will extend, since there is more surface area on the back side of the plunger than there is on the front (the ram shaft subtracts surface area on the front side). Force = PSI x square inch.

Unless, you swapped the ram around, connected full-time pressure to the front, then the "signal" air from the Ion 'noid to the back.. then the ram would stay extended until you fired and it would retract... so you would have to "rig" the ram to be facing forwards (away from the sear) in the frame and a wrap-around bracket coming back to the sear. This setup would be much more safe than a spring trying to extend the ram, which would cause possible mis-fires on gassing up/down of the gun. You want a short, dual acting ram, with a large a shaft as you can find (will help create a larger offset of force on the sear when the 'noid vents). unfortunately, when you have fighting pressures like this, the movement usually isnt very "snappy". your mileage will vary.


sorry I get typing away and dont know when to stop.

have fun!