** Official Level 10 Problems Thread **

[athomas]

This is an xvalve #VV03762
I believe this is a level 10 problem as i just bought a new on/off pin. i follow the AGD tuning guide and install the carrier that is just snug and 2 shims.
with the short spring it barely puffs and just leaks.
with the cut spring it goes forward and sticks.
with the long spring no matter how high the velocity goes it wont fire at all.

then i installed a ?level 3? bolt it was made before carriers it had a copper spring. it fired properly but it would act like a short stroke when you fired more than 5bps and not reset on the sear till you completely release the trigger.

i had more than 1000psi in my tank when i was testing.

The old one is an older level 7 setup. The powertube springs were used before spacers. They aren't copper but have a copper color. Its was probably having bolt stick issues depending on the bolt spring you were using, or it could have been a powertube spring that was too short/worn. It needs a good bolt spring to operate properly. The short gold colored bolt spring is the one to use with this setup.

For your level 10 setup:
1) Remove all powertube shims. They do nothing except cause leaks when setting up your carriers. Shims do not affect how your level 10 bolt operates.
2) Use the shortest gold colored bolt spring to start. You can change to the red one later. Springs don't affect the adjustment of the carriers. The springs only affect the force of the bolt and as a side effect, the minimum velocity that you can operate the gun at. If you install a bolt spring that is too stiff, the chamber pressure/velocity setting cannot overcome the pressure to move the bolt forward and fire the gun. This is what was happening in your setup with the silver spring.
2) Install the largest carrier that does not leak when the trigger is released and the bolt is fully reset.
3) When you change carriers, always use the same white carrier oring. It's the tension of this oring that you are adjusting when you change carrier sizes.
4) Once you find the correct carrier size, your setup is good to go.
5) install the correct bolt spring for the bolt force you want your setup to operate at. For optimum operation, your gun should operate at a velocity that is about 20 feet per second above the lowest velocity that the gun starts to shoot. ie; If the gun starts to cycle at 250 fps with the gold spring, then your optimum velocity would be 270 fps for maximum antichop. The gun will operate fine at anything above that velocity setting. By going to the next larger bolt spring you could increase the minimum operating velocity to 270 fps and thus your optimum velocity to 290 fps which would be a better fit for most people. These numbers are arbitrary. Select the bolt spring that allows your setup to operate in the velocity range you want. They all differ because of different barrels and such.
6) If you so desire, install powertube shims. The adjust how far the bolt needs to travel in order to vent air and reset if the bolt encounters a jam directly in front of it. Most of the time, an object in the breach will always allow some movement and thus will allow the bolt to vent and reset. You should never need these shims. If your setup fires, or chuffs, or vents in any way, then shims will not help because changing where the bolt vents is all that shims do. They adjust in 0.01 of an inch, so 2 or three shims will be a pretty short distance adjustment. The bolt will almost always move at least that far no matter what anyway.

Hopefully this helps.

[fierymartel]

Kind of new to this but, sounds like bolt stick. Don't mess around with any other bolts and setups. Use just your level 10. I would start with the smallest carrier and move up until it leaks down the barrel. I would then replace that carrier with the next smallest. If you still have bolt stick, begin to shim the bolt. I believe this to be correct procedure. If I'm wrong someone let me know and I'll edit or remove.

[redfireant3]

This is an xvalve #VV03762
I believe this is a level 10 problem as i just bought a new on/off pin. i follow the AGD tuning guide and install the carrier that is just snug and 2 shims.
with the short spring it barely puffs and just leaks.
with the cut spring it goes forward and sticks.
with the long spring no matter how high the velocity goes it wont fire at all.

then i installed a ?level 3? bolt it was made before carriers it had a copper spring. it fired properly but it would act like a short stroke when you fired more than 5bps and not reset on the sear till you completely release the trigger.

i had more than 1000psi in my tank when i was testing.

[athomas]

Sort of a level 10 problem I think. I just got a ult and tried to install it but after a few shots the marker would just start venting air down the barrel, so after toying with that for a good hour I decied to switch back to the old RT on/off and see if it that worked.

I gassed up the marker an pulled the trigger once and it fired like 3 times before the bolt got stuck in halfway into the chamber and the marker started venting again. I also oiled it before the tests

Any ideas are much appreciated
Code

The fact that it fired 3 times on a single shot before it stuck is a pretty good indication that its related to the on-off and not a level 10 problem. It is more reminiscent of an on-off or possibly a sear issue. Is the rail bushing in place? If nothing has changed, I suspect the problem is an on-off issue. Perhaps there is a piece of dirt struck in an oring.

Even though it stuck forward with the RT on-off, fire it a few more times to seat the oring and blow out any excess oil.

[codejunkie]

Did you try it shooting it again with the stock on/off? Might have just been a fluke if the marker was shooting fine before. If it's still sticking.

1. More OIL!!! Toss a few more drops in the fitting (i prefer topping off the fitting) attached to the valve itself. If you put in your asa or whatever you have, it tends to thin out before it gets to the valve.

2. Install a new/different bolt spring. A weak spring will sometimes do that.

3. How many Lvl X shims you have installed? Try removing 1 and sally forth then repeat again if still doing it.

Get the lvl 10 working with the stock on/off before tinkering with the ULT.

EDIT:

On/off Orings are good right?

Ya they look fine, and I have 2 shims

[Ando]

Did you try it shooting it again with the stock on/off? Might have just been a fluke if the marker was shooting fine before. If it's still sticking.

1. More OIL!!! Toss a few more drops in the fitting (i prefer topping off the fitting) attached to the valve itself. If you put in your asa or whatever you have, it tends to thin out before it gets to the valve.

2. Install a new/different bolt spring. A weak spring will sometimes do that.

3. How many Lvl X shims you have installed? Try removing 1 and sally forth then repeat again if still doing it.

Get the lvl 10 working with the stock on/off before tinkering with the ULT.

EDIT:

On/off Orings are good right?

[codejunkie]

Sort of a level 10 problem I think. I just got a ult and tried to install it but after a few shots the marker would just start venting air down the barrel, so after toying with that for a good hour I decied to switch back to the old RT on/off and see if it that worked.

I gassed up the marker an pulled the trigger once and it fired like 3 times before the bolt got stuck in halfway into the chamber and the marker started venting again. I also oiled it before the tests

Any ideas are much appreciated
Code

[athomas]

not sure where the rail bushing is but would this be unique to the lvl10? the gun fired fine w/ a lvl7

It probably isn't the problem, but something to check if you had the gun apart. The rail bushing goes in the rail where the rear field strip screw is. If it is missing, the valve could be out of place and it won't fire properly.

[jinhao]

not sure where the rail bushing is but would this be unique to the lvl10? the gun fired fine w/ a lvl7

[athomas]

majorho had a spare regulator assembly so I stole its reg piston and swapped it with mine. no more leaking out the regulator anymore. I put it on with the lvl7 spring and it still won't fire. on/off pin still resets but nothing happens besides that. will using the older lvl7-tuned regulator piston cause it to not even fire at all? I cranked the regulator all the way in and it still doesn't fire.

any other thoughts?

If the on-off pin is pushing down on the sear such that it is open and air is getting to the chamber, then it should fire. The only reason it wouldn't fire is if it had bolt stick due to a carrier that was way too tight.

Remove the barrel when checking your operation just in case the barrel is off centered and causing excessive friction on the side of the bolt. This could also be true if the body pim was too long and bottoming out in the rail. Also make sure the rail bushing is in place.

[jinhao]

majorho had a spare regulator assembly so I stole its reg piston and swapped it with mine. no more leaking out the regulator anymore. I put it on with the lvl7 spring and it still won't fire. on/off pin still resets but nothing happens besides that. will using the older lvl7-tuned regulator piston cause it to not even fire at all? I cranked the regulator all the way in and it still doesn't fire.

any other thoughts?

[Bigwooly1013]

For the record I do believe it was ando who gave me the suggestion about taking the regulator assembly apart and turning the rubber piece in the bottom of it over. Well this worked and mine is now cycling just fine with the velocity cranked all the way up and with the Red Spring (middle one)

[athomas]

So I just installed a lvl10 bolt and I'm kind of stumped. watched the video and can't seem to isolate the problem. I am new to automags but feel like i've troubleshooted pretty well. prior to installing the lvl10 bolt i had no leak down the barrel but was experiencing bolt stick (the trigger wasn't resetting) figured instead of buying spacers, i bought a level 10 kit.

after installing the new bolt using the carrier w/ 2 lines and 2 shims to start with, I was originally getting no leak down the barrel but the gun wouldn't fire. the trigger reset but pulling it did nothing.

took it apart and tried it again but now I am getting leak down the barrel with the trigger depressed or without. That would signify a problem with the regulator right? but the reg was working leak free before the level 10....

all of this while its still not firing.

please help!

First off, remove the level 10 shims when tuning your level 10. That way you won't get any false leaks. You can put the shims back in later if you wish. You will probably never need them.

Start with the standard level 7 bolt spring (a new one). It will allow you operate the gun at its lowest velocity setting. When changing carrier sizes, always use the same white powertube oring. Its this oring that the carriers are adjusting. Use the largest carrier that does not leak. That means you install increasingly larger carriers until it starts leaking. Then go back to the one that didn't leak. Don't forget to increase your velocity/pressure setting. The level 10 operates at a higher chamber pressure so your previous level 7 settings may not allow the gun to fire. Because the gun operates at a higher pressure, you may exceed the pressure release threshold of the regulator piston assembly. If this happens, you will need to get one of the new higher pressure assemblies.

Slight scoring on the regulator piston assembly shouldn't cause the leaks. It would leak all the time if it was the cause, not just when you increase the velocity. Generally, you will get a leak out the back when you increase the pressure past the safety release value. You will also get a leak when you back it off too far. There is a vent hole that allows air to pass once the piston oring is backed out past it.

[Ando]

I don't know if it does. Try using your lvl 7 spring with the lvl 10. It should fire without having to adj the reg to much.

[jinhao]

ok the regulator piston assembly's o-ring has scores on it which could be the reason why its leaking out the regulator nut. does the new reg piston assembly come with a new o-ring or should I buy a 4 pack of it?